doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Problem 12 ga Ammo

During the pandemic when 2 1/2" 12 ga shells were unobtainable, I bought from the internet some old Federal low pressure (1145 fps) 12 ga 2 3/4" shells thinking to use them in my French 2 1/2" gun chambers. Some of the brass had rust on cases and they stuck consistently in the chambers of the SxS after firing. I tried using them in a Remington 870 and the same thing started happening. I destroyed the boxes with shells with rust on them.

However, I still have seven that look pretty good. My question is, is this a generic problem with this ammunition or did the rust affect the shells I was trying to use. If the former, I'll ditch the remaining boxes.

I wouldn’t surmise that they are “low pressure”. Did you have some tested? Those are promotional loads, and are notorious for having wildly fluctuating pressure right up to SAAMI max. Components are sourced worldwide, and I’d bet the FPS number floats around quite a bit, lot to lot.

The brass plated steel heads are a problem in many guns, even when they aren’t rusty. They have a definite tendency to get stuck in the chambers. Good, old fashioned brass doesn’t do that, but, costs more than steel, so, here we are.

I’d use them in the 870 after making sure the chamber is sparkling clean. You aren’t going to hurt that one.

Best,
Ted

Thanks Ted...I didn't realize how inconsistent these rounds were. I got the "low pressure" stuff off a graph on the internet someplace (don't have it anymore) and bought them as a safeguard since usable shells had disappeared at the time. The French gun can handle these ....it is robust ...870 as well. Will limit it to those two.

And I guess this lable is misleading....paraphrasing Bill Clinton, "Depends on where 'made' is made."

Although it was an 870 Express, there is a big difference in quality than the 870 Wingmaster. My Express wouldn't cycle Remington steel headed promo loads but ironically, it would cycle the steel headed Winchester promos. I no longer have the Express. Tom Armbrust no longer tests factory loads. Perhaps he was concerned about someone mistaking test results to the point where they inferred it covered all runs of the same designated shell. As Ted noted, batch to batch can differ. Gil

Probably high pressure plus brass plated steel heads caused the issue. Very common for guns to have extraction issues with those steel heads.

I've had "modern" ammo with the steel heads misbehave in Ithaca M37's, both 16 and 20 ga., and in a Model 12 16 ga. I shoot all brass headed Win. AA HS 28 ga. in my M37 28 ga. and they function without issue.
The late former head gunsmith, Les Hovencamp, of the old Ithaca Gun Company cured the Ithaca issues by re-cutting the alignment of the extractor/ejection notches in the barrels. I don't believe he had to polish chambers. His death left a huge void in M37 work. He could fit extra "non-interchangeable" barrels on the old guns without doing the shenanigans that the present company requires. Gil

We've been through this more than once.

You misinterpreted a table that included reloaded Federal shells and forevermore have it stuck in your head that Federal factory shells are loaded to lower pressure.

These shells were improperly stored, thus the rust.

The Top Gun, while it has gone through several versions over the years, is currently a good target shell. The shot tests as very hard. They burn much cleaner than the smokey old Federals of old. The paper base wad is long gone.

Federal kept many people shooting through the pandemic supply shortages I think mainly because they control their own supply of components. They were the first to be readily available again on the shelves of most Walmart stores.

That said, these shells are manufactured to a price point. As Ted and others have pointed out, many guns are better served with brass headed shells. Still, steel headed shells don't rust when stored someplace dry.

Argo, what brand and how many 2 1/2" hulls do you have? Maybe someone will load a few for you.

I have not been saving hulls. I used to reload in India where it was Impossible to get shells. The Marines gave me 1,000 hulls; I smuggled in the primers and powder etc. in my HHE. But have not reloaded since. This year I hope to up my shooting outings. If so, I'll take a look at the reloading hobby again. I enjoyed it. Thanks for the offer.

And my 870 is a 1979 Wingmaster with 2 3/4" chambers bought new and taken with me on five deployments abroad (technically not legal). It is still in perfect shape. If I had to own one gun, that would be it. Don't understand why it suddenly wouldn't eject those old Federals. My first thought was to blame it on rust. My old Vietnam buddy was using it at the time and he was unfamiliar with a pump. Perhaps he limp wristed the pump.

why not just shoot 2 3/4 in your 2 1/2 chamber? Low pressure 2 3/4 shells can be used in 2 1/2 chambers. That way, you could use quality all brass hulls like Remington STS or Winchester AA's.