doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com The pinfire game gun

I should mention that the transformed Blanch is a single-bite action of the early Lang type, with the rising stud on the action bar, possibly dating to the early days of Blanch pin-fires. As better actions were becoming available after 1862, I can’t imagine that type of action was being made much longer after that. The juxtaposition of that action with the central-fire strikers and hammers is an odd mix! I’ll post a picture of it.

OK, here's the picture of the Blanch conversion, showing the single bite action with the rising stud. Also obvious are the weight-reducing cuts in the action bar, which I associate with the actioning work of E. C. Hodges.

Thankyou, Steve, for explaining the purpose of those cuts. My Fuller has them, but the Gasquoine and Higham pinfire guns I own do not, and I had bee wondering about the difference.

Regarding Gasquoine & Dyson, the Victorian directories for Manchester that my researches led me to list fewer gunmakers than I had expected. Barely half-a-dozen (from memory - I would have to check).

From my notes, during the pin-fire period, I have the following Manchester makers:

Agnew John P. Manchester 1849-1868
Booth & Co Edward Manchester 1867-1870
Burtinshaw William Manchester 1830-1865
Cadden Andrew Manchester 1862-1870
Conway Thomas Manchester 1804-1871
Conway Thomas Manchester 1819-1884
Edge John William Manchester 1849-1864
Gasquoine William Manchester 1857-1869
Gasquoine & Dyson Manchester 1846-1864
Gregory William Manchester 1815-1862
Griffiths William Manchester 1855-1906
Griffiths & Worsley Manchester 1862-1869
Hambling Reuben Manchester 1866-1868
Hamer & Co. Manchester 1860
Hepplestone Thomas Manchester 1852-1910
Kaye John Manchester 1845-1866
Manchester Ordnance & Rifle Co Manchester 1862-1864
Newton Thomas Manchester 1855-1906
Pearson Charles Manchester 1864-1869
Preston Francis Manchester 1858-1872
Robinson Francis Manchester 1858-1864
Somerset John Manchester 1857
Steel Henry Manchester 1857-1859
Stensby Robert Manchester 1832-1971
Warhurst Thomas Manchester 1867-1869
Watmough Robert Manchester 1854-1869
Whitworth Rifle Company Manchester 1860-1862
Wood John and William Manchester 1844-1855

I don't know for certain all of these sold/made pin-fires, but Agnew, Conway, Edge, Gasquoine, Gasquoine & Dyson, Griffiths, Griffiths & Worsly, Hambling, Newton and Watmough did. Others may have, but in such low numbers I have not yet found mention of them.

May I say... "Wow!"?
Now I want to dive back into the directory and see if/where they are listed individually. I.e., outside of the "Gun Makers" section.
If not, I guess Slater didn't get all the business he was hoping for.

Always good when a publication covers pin-fires. I hope the Journal has a wide readership.

https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/a-thomas-bissell-pinfire-

This is an interesting gun, being what looks to be Belgian in origin, but with the name of a British maker, Thomas Bissell, on the rib. In providing comments on the gun/article, I've tried to put it in perspective, in a period where we know Continental-made guns were being brought to Britain, but for which we have little consistent information.

Also appreciative that Diggory included my short piece on the Blanch conversion:

https://www.vintageguns.co.uk/magazine/a-victorian-makeover

Hey Steve, did you see my message to you on his Facebook post for this Bissell the other day?

I mentioned that for me, the style definitely feels later than earlier too. And the crosspin fastener forearm release mechanism does not feel French at all ( or at least it was much more common on British-made guns) nor Belgian which pretty much just made the French designs.

Hi Aaron, sorry I did not see your comment on the FB post. As to the crosspin fastener, the Belgian makers did use these for their wooden fore-ends, as with this one by Jean-Baptiste Rongé et Fils of Liège:

Steve has discussed the rising stud. However, his explanation on a Reilly question was truly worth retaining. The essence of this exchange is being posted below to insure it is all in one place. This site continues to have true expertise:

Holts is advertising a Reilly pin-fire, SN 10456, a Lefaucheux/Lang forward under-lever, center break 16 gauge shotgun. This gun would date to December 1857 and is one of the 5 earliest known extant Reilly break-action guns, the others being
-- 10054 (September 1856 and possibly the oldest datable UK center-break gun in existence),
-- 10128 (December 1856),
-- 10344 (August 1857),
-- 10458 (December 1857 – 1st extant Beringer style around the guard U-L) and
-- 10655 (May 1858).
This gun has been added to Chapter III, 27 & 28

Edit: Based on an exchange of correspondence with Holt's the auction house has changed the date of origin to circa 1857

https://www.holtsauctioneers.com/as...725++++797+&refno=226474&image=8
REILLY, LONDON
A CASED 16-BORE PINFIRE DOUBLE-BARRELLED SPORTING GUN, serial no. 10456,
circa 1857, with faded brown damascus 30in. barrels, the top-rib signed 'REILLY, 302 NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON', London proofs, rounded border and scroll engraved action with forward facing under-lever, borderline and scroll engraved top-tang featuring a vignette of a standing gamebird, border, scroll and gamescene engraved back-action locks signed 'REILLY, LONDON', engraved hammers, walnut butt-stock with chequered wrist (rubbed, small loss at head), iron heel-plate with scroll and gamescene engraved spur, gamescene engraved trigger-guard bow and chequered walnut splinter fore-end with cross-key fastener, in its makers oak case lined and compartmented in green baize, darkly stained parchment Reilly trade label and a small number of accessories



A question was asked about the action of 10456 (numbered circa December 1857). It appears to have a rising stud on the water table which interacts shallowly and at an oblique with the barrel flats. Could someone please explain what this is for? Stephen Nash I believe implied this was a Beringer characteristic.






edit: Stephen Nash offer an erudite and elegant explanation for the rising stud, identifying it with a Beringer patent.
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=662816#Post662816

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Here is Stephen’s response for the record:

The rising stud is actuated by moving the underlever and 'lifts' the barrels to start the opening motion. When closing the barrels, the depressed stud moves the underlever towards the center, bringing it within finger's reach. It is an assisted opening/closing mechanism developed by Beatus Beringer of Paris, in use on pin-fire actions from at least 1837. The stud could be centered, like on the Reilly, or slightly to one side, as in Beringer's diagram below (Journal Des Chasseurs, 1837).



The fact that there is a corresponding wear mark under the barrel shows the Reilly gun was opened and closed a great deal. By contrast, Casimir Lefaucheux used a fixed pin protruding from the barrel flats which cammed agaist the locking lug, which accomplished the same purpose.

The use of Beringer's rising stud on British pin-fires is interesting in that it shows that not all elements of Lefaucheux's action were copied. In fact, Beringer's action improvements and design choices (such as the single bite) were far more common in British pin-fires than Lefaucheux's, despite all British pin-fires being called 'Lefaucheux' at the time. Joseph Lang copied Beringer's single bite, but did not include the rising stud. Blanch, Reilly, and others, and Birmingham action makers such as Samuel Breeden and Joseph Brazier, did. While the pin-fire system of Lefaucheux, based on the cartridge, was adopted and correctly credited, Beatus Beringer had a greater impact on British designs, something which has not received the attention it deserves. Blanch bought a Beringer gun to study; what is not known if other gunmakers subsequently copied Blanch's copy, or obtained Beringer guns to dismantle on their own. I have no doubt that some Lefaucheux actions were brought in and retailed by British makers, and renamed. What I am unsure about is whether any British maker built copies of Lefaucheux's original double-bite design, I have yet to come across definitive proof.