doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Vintage single shotgun triggers

Has anyone in history ever done a comprehensive testing, or evaluation, of single triggers such as the Hunter One Trigger, the Miller, the Kautsky, the Infallible, etc.?

Those of us who have messed much with them may have preferences and/or opinions, but we all likely have a very small set of experiences to go on. I've had perfect results from HOTs, two of which I own at this time, but little to no experience with the others.

I would note that in more modern times the single selective trigger for shotguns has been , for all intents and purposes, perfected. You can put tens of thousands of rounds through Berettas, Brownings, Zolis, Guerinis, Perazzis, Kreighoffs, Kolars, etc. without a single issue. But, what about the vintage jobs? Has anyone ever carefully and fairly evaluated them?

I think when you are talking vintage single triggers, it becomes a discussion of how good the guy who was making and fitting the trigger was. Since most American doubles were built by piece rate workman, not gunmakers, the precision was likely not high. Dewey Vicknair goes into some single trigger designs on his blog, usually as a detail of whatever he is working on. I don’t believe the Kautsky would be considered one of his favorites.

You would think the vintage English triggers would enjoy a reputation for supreme reliability, but, you would be wrong. My own experience there was with a pre Royal Holland, and it taught me a few things, foremost to absolutely not do it again. Since the Spanish single triggers are copies of English single triggers, you won’t typically find guys raving about their mid 1950s AYA, or, other vintage Spanish single trigger gun.


Back when the Parker repros were being clearanced off the dealers shelves, I snapped triggers on a few of the single trigger versions that were left. To a one, they were what I would describe as “crunchy”. To this day, I don’t believe I have ever seen a double trigger Parker reproduction, but, I’d bet the triggers were better.


Very early on in my game, I figured out I prefer a double trigger arrangement. Maybe if most of my targets had been clay, instead of feathered birds taken while walking, I’d feel different. The path I am on right now, learning to shoot all over again, late in life, might change that opinion as well, I just haven’t gotten that far yet. Dad’s old Silver Snipe has a non selective single trigger that works well, but, after he put a big, squishy Pachmeyer pad on the gun (he put pads on every gun) it acted up with standard loads. Dad, being a child of the second big war, just shrugged and fed it 2 3/4” magnum rounds, which, always set the trigger. Eventually the pad got hard, and I stripped and cleaned the gun, and it works as designed, today. I briefly owned a Ruger Red Label, a first year blued 20 gauge, that I routinely forgot to swing the safety to select a barrel, getting the thing stuck in the safe position at a few flushes. Not the fault of the trigger itself, but, the safety, and, perhaps, years spent using the good old Snipe.

Old habits die hard.

Best,
Ted

There are a few individuals in the L.C. Smith organization that actually hate the HOT trigger and will stay away from buying a gun that has one and will write on our forum if someone brings up that they are having problems with their HOT trigger. I also own a few guns that have the HOT trigger and have bought a few that the trigger wasn't working correctly. The biggest problem I have seen with a HOT is that the gun was taken apart by someone that had no knowledge of the trigger and when put back together the trigger wasn't working and now they want to send it to someone to fix. There are three screws that can stop a HOT from working, the large screw under the top tang, when tightened one turn too much the sears are now almost resting on the trigger plate. This screw head has a tapered head that follows the angle of the top tang and the slot should be orientated to the gun, but I have seen many where the screw head was not. Second screw is the far screw under the trigger guard that comes out on top behind the safety. This screw not so much but should be flush with the top tang. The most important one is the lock plate connecting screw, the long screw that goes through and connects the locks. I have seen where 1/4 turn will not let the HOT work. This screw should also be flush on the right side with the lock plate. Also on a field grade gun this screw and the one under the trigger plate going to the top tang are almost the same length (the head on the trigger plate screw is a different thickness) and getting the two mixed up when taking gun apart can mean the trigger to not work. All screws from the factory were orientated to the gun except the top lever screw near the trigger guard that moves when you open the top lever. On a Featherweight you will see the short screw on the each side of the lock, most times these are not timed because gun was taken apart and the one screw was put on the wrong side.
Other than those screws there are written testimonials of HOT triggers working for thousands of rounds. There aren't many parts to these triggers to break.

History of the Ithaca single triggers
https://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=617152

Researcher posted a long list of single trigger patents for which I'm looking.

BTW: "Blue Rock" was unimpressed
Guns, Ammunition, and Tackle
Albert William Money, Horace Kephart, W. E. Carlin, Abraham Lincoln Artmann Himmelwright, John Harrington Keene 1904
http://books.google.com/books?id=G5ECAAAAYAAJ
As to the single trigger action on a gun, which is being pushed very hard at the present time, theoretically it ought to be a vast improvement on the old-time action, and at one time I was persuaded that it was only necessary for a man to get used to handling one of these guns to beat anything he had ever done before. I remained unconvinced that I was wrong for nearly two years, despite repeated failures, and spent much money on this new fad; but, like every good shot I know who has tried them, I went back to the old two triggers, and I am fully assured that even if the action were quite perfect, and as little liable to fail as the two triggers, that there is no real benefit to be gained, but rather the reverse.

I really didn't want this discussion to go to "why, or why I don't, like single triggers", though I DO appreciate all the answers thus far.

I can take 'em or leave 'em. I can switch from one to the other, and back, without a conscious thought. I have numerous singles and all work perfectly. Personal preferences aren't really what I'm looking for here, rather a direct comparison by an unbiased expert on the reliability of the various vintage designs. Probably doesn't exist, though.

I apprecaite the thought, but suspect there aren't enough original condition examples and dedicated time out there to have comprehensive testing. (i.e. improper reassembly and general lack of care and precsion is likley more the issure than any design.) I have had a few HOT, Infalliable, Lefever and Ithaca built versions, I have not personally had any issues with infalliable triggers, but my sample set is approximately 3 guns and less than 100 total rounds. I have one 32 in 20 ga with a HOT that has been solid... but again, only used for game and likely less than 50 rounds through it. I had to have 2 HOTs repaired that were unuseable, 2 others that were quirky, as well as one factory Lefever that didn't function at all when received. I owned a wonderful Flues Ithaca with a factory non-selective single trigger that doubled everytime. It was the only one with issues that I wasn't sure someone had had apart previously.

Vic Venters' "Shooting Sportsman" single trigger articles were Hunter One Trigger in March/April 2010 and Miller Single Trigger in Sept./Oct. 1999.
Venters' HOT article was reproduced in the Fall, 2011 "Journal of the LCSCA". The Summer 2020 "Journal" featured the HOT
(You'll need to cut and paste)
https://s3.amazonaws.com/ClubExpressClubFiles/43784/documents/LC_Smith_Journal_Summer_2020_Final_504730244.pdf?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIA6MYUE6DNNJ6ROIH3&Expires=1726674410&response-content-disposition=inline%3B%20filename%3DLC_Smith_Journal_Summer_2020_Final.pdf&Signature=OmmSMZGTZ4lNHmnm1SdwPNXzg5s%3D

In adding to the last post, I do have other shotguns with single triggers. One is an older Winchester 101 20 ga. This trigger is recoil operated and could be a bad thing when shooting clays. I don't think most are capable to select the other barrel when this happens. The other is a Beretta BL-4 in 28 ga. I believe this trigger is also recoil operated as I have not shot it in quite a while .For both and for the L.C. Smith's with the HOT trigger I can honestly say that I have never selected which trigger to shoot first. There are probably some instances in Sporting Clays that a far away first shot would be advisable to use the left barrel or over barrel first and then for the rabbit or short crosser the right barrel, but I have never done that and maybe I have with a double triggered gun.
Both of the o/u's single trigger have performed well in skeet, sporting clays and field use. I have never taken these apart to see the workings.

Anecdotally, I believe Boss made the best of the early single triggers in Britain. I was asking a guy about his Purdey pigeon gun with ST. He said it was a Boss trigger, and I’ve heard from others about Purdeys with Boss triggers. A good friend has a between the wars Purdey pigeon gun with a single Purdey trigger. Maybe by the late-20s Purdey had the bugs ironed out I dunno. I avoid British ST guns, but I have no direct experience. I’ve been prejudiced by hearsay.

I had an LC Smith pigeon gun with a HOT, no problem. Also had a Parker DHE with early Parker ST. No problems there either. I was told to leave the selector switch alone but of course I didn’t. Still no problem.

I'm surprised that David has an inertia Winchester 101. All the 101's my father had and he bought them as they first came out for SA shooting were mechanical. I and my brother-in- law inherited them.