We've had a number of conversations about a supposed "Helice" system. Actually a "Helice" top lever doesn't really exist. It is a copy of the Verney-Carron patent which he filed in 1896 under the name "Helice-Grip," "Helicobloc" and a couple of others.

Here is one discussion:
https://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=497660&page=4

Basically VC turned the Webley-Scott top lever upside down. You can identify the difference by the lack of a screw slot on the top lever on the VC copies. The VC patent became wildly popular in Saint-Etienne and after its expiration, dozens of firms engraved "Helice" (which means "helical") on their top levers - kind of an advertisement for quality (sort of like "organic" today). There are several other discussions on this topic on this board and a collage of various top levers with Helice on them. (Note the one gun lower right hand corner that has "Helice Gripp, Brevete" (Patented Helice Gripp) but which is using a Scott Spindel not a VC patent. He snuck in "Helice Gripp" by adding a "p").

[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Neltir, a French gunsmith who worked in the industry for 50 years didn't much like VC and had this to say (translated):
Verney Carron? well, all he did was simply modify the triple lock HELICE system of Webley to a system still more reliable with quadruple locks called HELICOBLOC on which Verney Carron took out a patent in 1896!

I'll add to Tom's post that the standard French barrel length is 27.5" and the standard chamber length is 65mm (2 1/2" inches). As mentioned above from 1889 to we now believe 1924 Saint-Etienne stamped chamber lengths in cm (6.5 vice 65). Before 1889 and from 1924 on they were stamped in mm.

We have had numerous discussions on shooting 2 3/4" shells out of 2 1/2" chambers. I believe the last word was that this can be done and is no threat to the gun if reasonable muzzle velocities are used. . .and actually may be better than lengthening the chambers.
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=607886&page=1
https://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=296938
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=34328&page=1

Last edited by Argo44; 08/20/24 10:54 PM.
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