doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com B&P Classic Upland Game Shells

I am new to the vintage double shotgun world. I recently had a family heirloom sxs inspected by a reputable gunsmith and given the ok. It is chambered in 12ga 2-5/8".He recommended RST shells, but specifically a pressure less than 11,500 psi. While I researching 12ga 2.5inch shells from RST; I also noticed B&P sells their Classic Upland Game loads. Here is the link: https://baschieri-pellagriusa.com/hunting/upland-game-classic.html

B&P's shells run at 6,500 to 7,000 psi per company representative.

After searching the forum, I did not see any previous threads on these B&P shells. Any thoughts on them? Specially, compared to RST? The deal breaker for me if the quality is on par, I am able to purchase the B&P in person at a local gun store.

They work well. Some guns do nit like them for extraction. The plastic rim does not always fit well with the extractor. So try a few boxes and see how well they work for you. The shells are a quality product and pattern well.

Welcome to the world of side by sides and especially vintage ones. His recommendation for pressures less than 11,500 psi is max SAAMMI pressure for 12 ga. 2 3/4" shells. For your vintage gun 7.500 would be ok but the B&P shells at 6500-7000 psi would be better. Good luck with it and you will enjoy the lower pressure.

B&P is very good about sharing pressures, but I could not find pressure reported for the Classic Upland loads.
The 2 3/4" 1 oz. Comp One at 1160 is 6,500 psi
IMHO given barrels without defects and solid lock-up, recoil is a bigger issue for vintage doubles than pressure

This is a couple of years old

doc drew...

thanks for the b&p chart...

any others?

perhaps for Fear Roachi, Remington, Federal and of course Winchester brands...

Where are you finding them on shelves? A big box store/franchise or a local gun shop? I am wondering if there might be some in or near the Twin Cities that a friend could find for his 16.

https://ammoseek.com/ammo/12-gauge/Baschieri%20%26%20Pellagri-shotgun?sl=2%201%2F2

Looks like you'll need to cut & paste

This was in Pennsylvania. My lgs showed them in stock online...turns out it was wrong, but they can get me #8 12ga.

Just realized it uses Nickel Plated Lead Shot. Should I have any concerns using that in a vintage gun?

Just realized it uses Nickel Plated Lead Shot. Should I have any concerns using that in a vintage gun?

Nickle plated shot is still soft so it isn't a problem in old guns. In fact, based on what I've read, most nickel plated shot is not as hard as high-antimony hard lead shot.

Absolutely not.




I agree, and have never had it hardness tested but the nickel plated shot sold by Precision Reloading is said to be truly plated, not just nickel washed. Again, I can't verify it but my field experience with it is all I have to go on. I've used a specialty dove load in my .410s for the two seasons past now, using the PR nickel plated 8s, and they seem to kill doves better than any other commercial load I've ever tried. My old stand-by was the WW 3/4 oz. load, but with my handloads of .73 oz. of the nickeled shot I have less cripples and a higher percentage of really dead birds when they hit the ground. The PR nickeled shot is said to come from Italy and since B & P are an Italian based company I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the shot from both sources comes from the same factory in Italy.

B&P for hunting. All day every day.

With foreign ammo, always good to confirm whether they use shot which is US size or foreign size. British 6 shot, for example, runs 270/oz while American 6s are 225/oz. Brit 6s are closer to US 7s (299/OZ) than they are to US 6. To further complicate that issue, if you cut open a few factory loads, US or foreign, you may find that they don't count the way you expect them to. I don't do counts on anything smaller than 6's (or very rarely, 7's). Doing that is enough of a pain in the derriere, let alone smaller size shot.

I use B&P Comp1 in all my English guns. I really like the 7/8oz loads when I can find them.

Mike, have you ever had misfires with the Comp Ones? I have two flats that would give me light primer strikes about 20 percent of the time, with every boxlock gun I own. I've got two external hammer guns that will fire them nearly 100 percent of the time. The rims on the case heads are shaped in such a way that they sit too deeply in the chambers.

I've wondered if I got a bad lot, or something. It's definitely not the guns I'm trying to use them in.

Stan, You got a bad lot or they have thickened the rim subsequently. Over the past 2 years, I have been shooting Comp ones in about 10 different vintage English hammer guns, both internal and external hammer guns, with no misfires or rim thickness issues. They are 2 3/4" but the pressure is so low, I am not too concerned shooting them in 2 1/2" chambers. Recently, I have been shooting the ArmUsa 12ga 2 1/2" Vintage 28 gram loads available at Clays Ammo. They are the correct chamber length and the pressures are comparable to the comp ones. Pricing is good on those 2 loads. Us Non-reloaders are stuck with RST for anything below 12ga. with what I consider unfavorable pricing.

Thanks Owen. I value your opinion. I hope I can try a box or two of a later lot. I love the pressure and the shells overall, as long as they go Bang.

Isn't the point of nickel plating to make the shot slicker when passing through the bird/feathers and less about hardness? Its possible that I'm just a victim of marketing gimmicks but I thought that's what I had read.

I cannot answer that positively, but can say definitely that it improves patterns, same way copper plating does. And unless shown to be wrong I believe the plating imparts a bit of hardness that helps prevent shot from becoming quite as deformed upon setback. This bit of a harder shell is why some of us insist on true plated shot and not washed shot. The coating is just thicker when it's plated, thus imparting the hardness.

That, plus the possible increased penetration factor, would make it deadlier.

When I was developing loads for my 2" 12 gauge, I got some nickel plated shot from precision reloading for grouse loads. This, despite being warned by GLS that it may not pattern well. I should have listened. It performed quite poorly on the pattern board in fiber-wad loads. I went back to unplated magnum lead. YMMVBMN.

This is curious since PR claims their Ni plate starts as 6% Sb shot.

BPI, the only other vendor of Ni plate I'm aware of, also claims they use a thick plated coating on their shot but they don't mention the initial hardness before plating.

I've used Ni plate #5 from BPI with perfect satisfaction in pheasant loads, the shot obtained many years ago when I believe they stated it was sourced from Italy.

How it can pattern poorly would seem a mystery... the harder the better as far as pattern percentage.

In fact, in my experience steel shot does not respond to choke at all. It simply prints Full, which in my opinion rather refutes any of the 'vector' nonsense explanations about how choke works.

I find it curious too, but I have finally learned that if GLS says X, you can take X to the bank. The pattern board does not lie.

I will say that the stuff is amazingly round, smooth, and it rolls like crazy if you spill a load on your bench. Luckily, I have blood gutters surrounding my press to keep the mess contained - somewhat.