doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Miroku SXS ?

If only the Turks would learn that many shotgunners aren't overly excited about guns with a trigger pull that's significantly heavier than the weight of the gun. And of course the BSS were a lot more expensive than were the Mirokus that were sold as Charles Dalys, or Western Field, or simply as Miroku.

You've beat that horse to death every time Turkish doubleguns have been mentioned here for the last number of years. It's old news. The fact is, good triggers are where you find them. American, English and Italian guns are not totally exempt from "too hard" triggers either. I own a beautiful DHE Parker 16/20 two barrel set that came to me with 8 and 9 lb. triggers. They were atrocious. They would hold the weight of the gun without "breaking the sears". You had to "bounce" it on your trigger finger to get the trigger to break. Adjustments of the triggers by a good gunsmith resulted in pulls in the 4 lb. range. Target shooters in all disciplines have their triggers worked to suit them. I won a Super X2 target semi years ago at a state championship sporting tourney. Good gun for high volume targets, but I had to send it to Phillip's in TX for a trigger job. Now, it's a great gun for high volume targets.

Folks like you need to remind yourselves that some manufacturers are never going to deliver a new gun with nice, light trigger pulls because of perceived liability concerns, and move on past it. It is what it is. Whining won't fix it.


I wish ALL doubleguns came with a 3 1/2 lb. front trigger and a 4 lb. rear one. But, when I can buy a nice Dickinson or SKB from Turkey at the prices they offer them, and spend $100 getting the triggers to suit me personally, I see no downside, except for your predictable commentary about it.

I remember when Cabelas got those, Tom. I later picked one up directly from someone who'd served in the military in Japan and bought it over there. Nice guns for the money.

The thing is, Stan, one reason people buy Turkish guns is because of the price. I don't tell people not to buy a Turkish made shotgun. I tell them not to buy one without testing the triggers. The good price obviously isn't as good if you have to figure in another $100 to a gunsmith to work on the triggers for you. Most guys who buy Turkish guns aren't buying them for serious target shooting. Often as a backup gun on hunting trips, rainy day gun, whatever you want to call them. Entry level sxs for a youngster. Or maybe they've never owned a 28ga and they want a new one but don't want to spend much money. I never owned a Turkish-made SKB, but I tested the trigger on several. (I'm pretty sure they're all single trigger guns) and I didn't find heavy pulls on those. But they're also more expensive than a lot of Turkish doubles.

I gave up my last regular outdoor writing job after doing that for almost 50 years. But what I often heard over the years I wrote was people thought we got new guns for free and never mentioned any issues we found. Basically our bonus from the maker for not writing anything negative about their guns.
Never worked out that way in my experience.

Thing is Larry, you're preaching to the choir. And, $100 to get a great set of triggers isn't prohibitive for anybody who wants a good shooting gun.

But, keep preaching. I know you think you're doing the Lord's work. But, how about being a little more fair to "the Turks" and next time mention the other new shotguns out there that come with need-to-be-improved triggers. There's lots of 'em, of all nationalities. And again, it's because of liability, and it knows no national boundaries.

For better or worse, we have a very large choir here . . . of which we only see a very small slice. I don't think of what I'm doing as "the Lord's work". But if someone mentions Turkish guns, why not mention the fact that a lot of them, relatively speaking, do have heavy triggers? If someone buys a CZ, for example, I will mention that if you want lighter triggers, their policy--unless they've changed it--is that they will lighten the pulls for you to the weight of the gun but no more than that. That's a decent policy, although it may cause one to wonder why they don't do that before they send guns out to buyers/dealers? But it does save buyers $100 if they're happy with a 6# pull on guns that weigh 6 pounds. We could also do a better job of giving credit to dealers who will stand behind guns they sell and will either take them back or take care of problems they've missed. Many of us, like you and me, have been around in this game for long enough to know who those dealers are. As well as the names of reputable gunsmiths to take care of such problems. Preachers do tend to tell us the same things every Sunday. And we mostly don't complain because of the reminders.

All of that, a least in my opinion, is more significant, for example, than telling people to avoid the local Ford dealer . . . because a whole lot more people buy Fords than buy Turkish guns. And if you don't like your local dealer, there's probably another one not very far away that you'll like better. That's not the case in the much smaller world of shotguns with 2 barrels. That's one reason people come to doublegunshop.

Oh, you're definitely going to do that. My question is, while you're pointing out the wart on the girl's face why not mention her good qualities? You know, give credit where credit is due. This was your post ........


When all you say about Turkish made guns is that they often have very heavy triggers you are intentionally skewing a newcomer's view of the guns. Perhaps if you'd qualify it by pointing out that they are a huge value for the dollars spent, that they have a reputation for being perfectly regulated, and that even the base grades come with nicely figured Turkish walnut, folks like me might not get the idea that you are bashing them.

I was told once, by a very wise person, that when you have to reprimand an employee, or someone below you on the chain of command, for a mistake or deficiency in their work, that you begin by pointing out the good qualities that person has, and the ways they do a good job.Then you point out where they can improve. It is received much better, accomplishes a lot more and doesn't create an atmosphere of negativity.

Not a practice that you follow, ever. What a hypocrit.

I owned two Superposed. both had 7 lb trigger pulls.
I own two Dikinson Plantation Sportings, (28ga,20ga) both have low 4lb trigger pulls and have been flawless.
I wouldn't buy another CZ gun, too many problems.

Stan, I think we agree that the best quality of Turkish guns is their price. But if buyers have to spend more than the price to get decent triggers and no one bothers to tell them why that might happen--and how they might know whether they're going to have to spend an extra $100 or so--it seems to me we're not doing our job as more experienced voices when it comes to doubleguns as we might be. That's the kind of advice that potential buyers are looking for. Snap caps aren't all that expensive. And checking triggers isn't rocket science. If a dealer has several Turkish guns, the buyer might well find one with trigger pulls that are OK with him. Otherwise, that buyer may have to find a gunsmith who is willing to work on triggers and does a decent job. I have a local smith who is great on opening chokes if necessary, and turns guns around very quickly. But he doesn't do trigger work on doubles.

Given that Turkish guns are typically entry level buys if someone is just dipping his toes into the doublegun pool, it seems wise to advise them of a potential problem on a gun that might otherwise be a good buy.

After hearing accusations that writers don't do enough to print the negative side of gun x, y, or z that readers are considering buying, I would rather err on the side of caution.