doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Miroku SXS ?

Looking at a BC Miroku sxs - 12 ga box lock - 2/34" - dbl trigger - extractor gun with 28" mod/full tubes.

The frame is marked BC Miroku but there is no model # anywhere I can find. It has scalloped frame sides and serial number M424xxx. Seems like a quality shotgun.


Any idea when this gun might have been manufactured and is it just an unmarked 500?

Many thanks

Like this one?



Some of the early Miroku box lock guns were not marked with a model number. This is as much as a scallop as I have ever seen on a Miroku, later guns had simpler straight stock to action fitting. Ejectors and single triggers don’t seem to turn up that often on the older guns, a good thing in my opinion.

Likely a decent bird gun, not flashy, but, very useful.

Best,
Ted

the parent of the browning bss...less the single trigger the ejectors and about half a pound...

a superior gun and a bargain...

buy this one now...

I had a Miroku Model M that looked very much like a British game keeper's gun. Very basic but in excellent condition. Factory chokes were IC/IM. Nothing fancy, but a really nice gun for pheasants. One of those I should have kept.

There are a fair number of variations of the Miroku doubles, but all I have seen are solid and well made. I have a Daly 500, and I had a set of otherwise unmarked Miroku barrels fitted to it, with no problems. That gun is lighter and trimmer than my Browning BSSs, and has slightly better wood. I also had a Miroku O/U field gun that was noticeably nicer than my old field grade Citori of similar vintage. So, if condition and price are good, probably worth buying.

Ted

That is the one except it has a blued frame. The finish is exc plus but turned a bit plum.

It is a fine game gun for sure.

The Miroku sxs seems like as good a value as can be had.

Thanks

I’ve got a Miroku 550 with scalloped action and ejectors. If memory serves it comes in at 6.5 lbs, IC and F chokes, with pretty nice wood. I haven’t been able to figure out when it was made, but it is a nice pheasant gun.

For once I can help, rather than just learning from you guys.

I have just bought a Miroku 12 bore side-by-side with 28" barrels bored modified and full choke. Whilst browsing through the list of boxlock ejectors in Holts Sealed Bid sale about six months ago I spotted two of these for sale. having never heard of this model I researched it and found a rave review in the 1975 American Guns Review annual, where it was listed as the Browning SBS.
The Holts estimates were about £300 / $400 plus their 30% fees and carriage, so I left a bid on one, sight unseen. I failed; it went for £382, or £500 all in, too much for me. So I had a look at the British Gun Trader website and found half a dozen for sale. One in the middle of Wales looked good in the photos, so I bought it for £275 plus £100 for transport to me here in the south. It is fine and tight, almost like new, although the bluing on the barrels is a bit thin. It shoots well. This may become my low-cost gun for steel shot if and when the law here changes.

My research seems to show that they were all made between 1974 and 1977, and were slightly cheaper than the Miroku over and unders of the time. My serial number is 452xxx, and all the others offered for sale here are also 45xxxx. I believe a batch of about 3,000 were imported here. Mine is proofed by the Birmingham Proof House for 1976. The barrels are beautifully made with chopperlumps. The stock is fixed to the action with a stock bolt, and mine is absolutely straight, with no cast at all, which is a bit of a problem for me. It features a 1970s white line spacer, which is quite quaint.
The barrels are clearly stamped "Made in Japan and Assembled in Korea", which I suppose kept the cost down a bit. I have a copy of the original 16 page booklet which shows that they made either single trigger or double triggers versions, and also three different forends, a splinter for England, a middling version and a big beavertail. these relate to model numbers 150, 160 and 170 respectively.

The handbook also list the system of choke markings with one * or + meaning Full Choke, up to *** or SS for Skeet. The safety catch is automatic, for a field gun.

If you have any other questions let me know.

HB

The late Browning BSS guns also carried the same stamp about being assembled in Korea. Some owners of the "REAL Japanese BSS" seemed to worry about whether those "assembled in Korea" sxs were of lesser quality. In any case, Browning got out of the sxs business in the late 80's to focus on their very successful Miroku-made OUs. When you could still find Miroku sxs on the market in the US, there were also some that carried the Western Field name (while also marked Miroku), which means that they were sold by Montgomery Ward before they got out of the gun business. Those are also solid guns for not a lot of money.

Back when Browning was preparing to introduce the Cynergy OU, they invited a group of outdoor writers out to South Dakota to shoot both targets and pheasants with their new guns. Because the prices on Spanish sxs were going up pretty rapidly back then, several of us suggested to the Browning guys that there might be a niche for the BSS in the US market again. They told us that all the Miroku employees who made sxs had retired. Given the difficulties Ruger encountered when they decided to make a sxs, that looks to have been a smart decision.

There WAS a niche for good, lower priced S X S guns in America, but the Turks recognized the need and have filled it very well, IMO. The Miroku built guns were very good for the money, but not perfect. I shot my BSS off face on the right barrel, partly because the single trigger is not selective and always fires the right barrel first, causing many more rounds to be shot through the right barrel than the left. They're great shooting guns. I won the 2010 S X S events at the U S Open with mine, in both AA class and Veterans concurrent. But, it should not have shot itself off face so quickly, given the care and cleaning it received from me, and the total number of rounds fired through it.

Keep in mind that the design is a copy of the Webley & Scott, and with that comes some of the draw backs of that venerable design. The design was originally intended as light game gun. It was never intended to be a high volume clays gun or a dedicated waterfowl gun. Many have served those purposes well, but they also have a tendency to come off the face with high volume use.

Dustin

I remember a day in the Sidney Gun Library one day when a gentleman asked if we’d be interested in some side by side shotguns. We of course answered yes, and a few minutes later he and a friend walked into the Library with a couple of shopping carts full of Miroku boxes. I’ve never seen so many brand new Mirokus. Bought them all and they didn’t last long on the market. This was in the mid 2000 decade. The gentleman was a former USAF member who’d bought them while stationed in Japan. He was a shrewd investor.

Sounds like the gun that was sold here as the BSS. In addition to my Mirokus, I have 3-1/2 BSSs, stamped both Japan and Korea. No noticeable difference among them, except that the Miroku guns are trimmer and a bit nicer than the BSS. Why 3-1/2 BSSs? Because I cannibalized one of the 12s to make a 28"/30 " two barrel set for my Sporter. If anyone needs a BSS 12 ga action with PG stock, PM me.

Point taken, Dustin. Mine has never been a high volume target gun, seeing only sporadic use at S X S events. But, when it came with 3" chambers and made with modern metallurgy I assumed it would handle 3" duck loads. I did not know of the drawbacks of the design at the time, and the gun paid the price. To her credit, she's still going strong handling 1 1/4 oz. loads, with a shim on the hook. Maybe I'll live long enough, and stay healthy enough, to shoot her to pieces killing ducks.

I ended up getting the gun. Super clean and possibly never shot. No marks on the breach faces. Lever way right of center.

Real solid gun.

Thx for all the replies

Excellent!

Let us know how it shoots.

HB (born in Virginia...)

Congrats on the very nice acquisition. I have 2 Mirokus and never had issue with either, and would second all the good things said about them. Their sidelocks are the bees knees IMO.

Shoulders nice and should shoot well. Will get her out shooting on Saturday.

Thx all.

I had a Miroku 12 gauge SxS years ago. I believe it was a Model 500. Straight grip stock. Paid $300.00 for it (used). I put a leather pad on it. Nice skeet gun. I wish I still had it.

If only the Turks would learn that many shotgunners aren't overly excited about guns with a trigger pull that's significantly heavier than the weight of the gun. And of course the BSS were a lot more expensive than were the Mirokus that were sold as Charles Dalys, or Western Field, or simply as Miroku.

If only the Turks would learn that many shotgunners aren't overly excited about guns with a trigger pull that's significantly heavier than the weight of the gun. And of course the BSS were a lot more expensive than were the Mirokus that were sold as Charles Dalys, or Western Field, or simply as Miroku.

You've beat that horse to death every time Turkish doubleguns have been mentioned here for the last number of years. It's old news. The fact is, good triggers are where you find them. American, English and Italian guns are not totally exempt from "too hard" triggers either. I own a beautiful DHE Parker 16/20 two barrel set that came to me with 8 and 9 lb. triggers. They were atrocious. They would hold the weight of the gun without "breaking the sears". You had to "bounce" it on your trigger finger to get the trigger to break. Adjustments of the triggers by a good gunsmith resulted in pulls in the 4 lb. range. Target shooters in all disciplines have their triggers worked to suit them. I won a Super X2 target semi years ago at a state championship sporting tourney. Good gun for high volume targets, but I had to send it to Phillip's in TX for a trigger job. Now, it's a great gun for high volume targets.

Folks like you need to remind yourselves that some manufacturers are never going to deliver a new gun with nice, light trigger pulls because of perceived liability concerns, and move on past it. It is what it is. Whining won't fix it.


I wish ALL doubleguns came with a 3 1/2 lb. front trigger and a 4 lb. rear one. But, when I can buy a nice Dickinson or SKB from Turkey at the prices they offer them, and spend $100 getting the triggers to suit me personally, I see no downside, except for your predictable commentary about it.

I remember when Cabelas got those, Tom. I later picked one up directly from someone who'd served in the military in Japan and bought it over there. Nice guns for the money.

The thing is, Stan, one reason people buy Turkish guns is because of the price. I don't tell people not to buy a Turkish made shotgun. I tell them not to buy one without testing the triggers. The good price obviously isn't as good if you have to figure in another $100 to a gunsmith to work on the triggers for you. Most guys who buy Turkish guns aren't buying them for serious target shooting. Often as a backup gun on hunting trips, rainy day gun, whatever you want to call them. Entry level sxs for a youngster. Or maybe they've never owned a 28ga and they want a new one but don't want to spend much money. I never owned a Turkish-made SKB, but I tested the trigger on several. (I'm pretty sure they're all single trigger guns) and I didn't find heavy pulls on those. But they're also more expensive than a lot of Turkish doubles.

I gave up my last regular outdoor writing job after doing that for almost 50 years. But what I often heard over the years I wrote was people thought we got new guns for free and never mentioned any issues we found. Basically our bonus from the maker for not writing anything negative about their guns.
Never worked out that way in my experience.

Thing is Larry, you're preaching to the choir. And, $100 to get a great set of triggers isn't prohibitive for anybody who wants a good shooting gun.

But, keep preaching. I know you think you're doing the Lord's work. But, how about being a little more fair to "the Turks" and next time mention the other new shotguns out there that come with need-to-be-improved triggers. There's lots of 'em, of all nationalities. And again, it's because of liability, and it knows no national boundaries.

For better or worse, we have a very large choir here . . . of which we only see a very small slice. I don't think of what I'm doing as "the Lord's work". But if someone mentions Turkish guns, why not mention the fact that a lot of them, relatively speaking, do have heavy triggers? If someone buys a CZ, for example, I will mention that if you want lighter triggers, their policy--unless they've changed it--is that they will lighten the pulls for you to the weight of the gun but no more than that. That's a decent policy, although it may cause one to wonder why they don't do that before they send guns out to buyers/dealers? But it does save buyers $100 if they're happy with a 6# pull on guns that weigh 6 pounds. We could also do a better job of giving credit to dealers who will stand behind guns they sell and will either take them back or take care of problems they've missed. Many of us, like you and me, have been around in this game for long enough to know who those dealers are. As well as the names of reputable gunsmiths to take care of such problems. Preachers do tend to tell us the same things every Sunday. And we mostly don't complain because of the reminders.

All of that, a least in my opinion, is more significant, for example, than telling people to avoid the local Ford dealer . . . because a whole lot more people buy Fords than buy Turkish guns. And if you don't like your local dealer, there's probably another one not very far away that you'll like better. That's not the case in the much smaller world of shotguns with 2 barrels. That's one reason people come to doublegunshop.

Oh, you're definitely going to do that. My question is, while you're pointing out the wart on the girl's face why not mention her good qualities? You know, give credit where credit is due. This was your post ........


When all you say about Turkish made guns is that they often have very heavy triggers you are intentionally skewing a newcomer's view of the guns. Perhaps if you'd qualify it by pointing out that they are a huge value for the dollars spent, that they have a reputation for being perfectly regulated, and that even the base grades come with nicely figured Turkish walnut, folks like me might not get the idea that you are bashing them.

I was told once, by a very wise person, that when you have to reprimand an employee, or someone below you on the chain of command, for a mistake or deficiency in their work, that you begin by pointing out the good qualities that person has, and the ways they do a good job.Then you point out where they can improve. It is received much better, accomplishes a lot more and doesn't create an atmosphere of negativity.

Not a practice that you follow, ever. What a hypocrit.

I owned two Superposed. both had 7 lb trigger pulls.
I own two Dikinson Plantation Sportings, (28ga,20ga) both have low 4lb trigger pulls and have been flawless.
I wouldn't buy another CZ gun, too many problems.

Stan, I think we agree that the best quality of Turkish guns is their price. But if buyers have to spend more than the price to get decent triggers and no one bothers to tell them why that might happen--and how they might know whether they're going to have to spend an extra $100 or so--it seems to me we're not doing our job as more experienced voices when it comes to doubleguns as we might be. That's the kind of advice that potential buyers are looking for. Snap caps aren't all that expensive. And checking triggers isn't rocket science. If a dealer has several Turkish guns, the buyer might well find one with trigger pulls that are OK with him. Otherwise, that buyer may have to find a gunsmith who is willing to work on triggers and does a decent job. I have a local smith who is great on opening chokes if necessary, and turns guns around very quickly. But he doesn't do trigger work on doubles.

Given that Turkish guns are typically entry level buys if someone is just dipping his toes into the doublegun pool, it seems wise to advise them of a potential problem on a gun that might otherwise be a good buy.

After hearing accusations that writers don't do enough to print the negative side of gun x, y, or z that readers are considering buying, I would rather err on the side of caution.

Well she is a keeper. Shot well .... at least as well as I shoot.

Just a real nice piece of tool.