doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Cerakote and doublegun solder

I have an older English double gun (A&D style box lock non ejector circa 1920s-30s) that I am considering having the barrels cerakoted. I do not have the budget for this gun to be reblued, but there is a cerakote color called midnight blue that does a passable job, and would certainly improve my gun’s looks.

My worry is that this color requires curing at 300F for an hour. I am concerned about my ribs and their solder. Not sure what temperature the soldering would start to fail at. Also unsure what type of solder would have been used. I would love some advice.

I watched a man apply Ceracote on small items without heat curing. He didn't feel it was necessary. He had done it both ways. I'd check around and find out for sure. Gil

The person I spoke with about doing the job says that for a job of this size, not curing with heat will not be practical.

I realize you are trying to save a few bucks but have you considered doing your own rust bluing? It's pretty easy and rewarding if you are able to invest a little sweat equity. Very little money involved.

I considered it, but I have enough project guns that my diy ideas have made worse instead of better

I understand that.

Good luck.

Ambient air curing of Ceracote "C" series:
https://images.nicindustries.com/ce...pplication-guide-dt20200115005606577.pdf

Typical Industrial solder of that period would be Eutectic ie 63% tin 37% lead which melts at 350f. I would suggest modify cure temp to 250f for a longer period.

Spoke to the applicator today. Going to go for longer period at lower temp. Should be able to keep temp at 200.

Will try to post some pictures when it comes back.

Several thoughts come to mind, the first being that while Cerrakote may have its' place on certain guns, a vintage English SxS isn't one of them. OK for a polymer frame semi, or a barn gun. Certainly fine for a cheap pump shotgun subject to harsh conditions on a boat or sea shore. Most people just aren't into painted doubles, and would probably prefer buying one with well worn bluing rather than one that is Cerrakoted.

I understand the reluctance to pay big money to properly rust blue a gun that may not be worth a lot. And while rust bluing is cheap and fairly easy to do yourself, there is a learning curve to do it well.

Another thought is what sort of oven do you have that will accommodate the controlled heating of say 28" or 30" barrels? I'd think barrels would need to be suspended so they weren't touching oven walls, racks, etc. Even if they would fit in a conventional kitchen oven, I'd think most wives would frown on using it to bake Cerrakote. I do agree that the baking would be fine so long as you stay safely below the melting point of the solder.

Finally, have you considered Oxpho Blue? It is by far the best cold blue I have ever tried, and cheaper than Cerrakote. Done well, it would look far better on an old English double. It would also be far easier to remove in the future. I bought an F Grade Lefever parts gun that had been Cerrakoted, and it was quite difficult to remove, especially in places like lettering, engraving, and along the ribs. I used methylene chloride paint stripper, lacquer thinner, and lots of steel wool and elbow grease.

Oxpho blue is very durable, unlike most other cold blues, and with a little practice, can be put on very evenly. I find it works best to apply the solution with small wads of clean 0000 steel wool instead of cotton pads. I burnish it into any places that it takes unevenly. I only used it on one complete gun, an old single shot, and was very pleased with how it turned out.

I fear cold blue is what got me into this mess. The original finish was so badly worn as to have been confused by several members here in photos as being Damascus. Trying to improve on that led to a disaster with cold blue and now I find myself seeking something to protect and dress up the gun, which is not now and will not be for sale. It is for use, and I look forward to using it again once it is again ready to take afield

Another choice that I have personal experience with is the Duracoat application via the "shake and spray" two part kit. Brownells has it for $60. No equipment is necessary other than what comes in the kit. I use it for finishes on inexpensive Turkish and Russian single shots.It is a two part epoxy finish. Five years ago, I was asked by a friend to take his gun to a gunsmith I know who specializes in turkey chokes. He had an old Lefever trap gun in 20 ga. that had already been reblued at one time with what turned out to be a plum finish on the action. I was in the process of Duracoating the action of one of my guns which had a bright polished alloy action. It was a small job and I had plenty of the mix left over. I offered to coat his gun once it was back from the 'smith. A screw in choke was threaded after cutting off the Cutts and a red dot mount added. The Duracoat was flat black. Here's a photo of the finished job. Now is Duracoat as tough as Ceracote? No. But Ceracote can chip and like Duracoat, repair is difficult if at all possible. Gil

Cerakoting an English double is akin to the queen wearing overalls. I think the key to what is being said here is a GOOD cold blue job.
You are trying to dress it up, not turn it into a functional junker.
I'm not trying to offend, its just the the best way I could think of to describe cerakoting an English double.

Yes exactly, that is why I suggested a proper application of Oxpho Blue as a much better alternative to Cerrakote on a vintage double. It doesn't take a lot of skill or money to do a presentable job. It is much better and more durable than any other cold blue I have tried. It is easily reversible, and it doesn't take a professional to apply it. I don't know the actual condition of the gun, but assumed it is at least worth saving and making it look decent.

It ain't right, but I'm sure there is someone out there who has decided to refinish a decent old Rolls Royce with rattle cans of spray paint... or this...

I don’t recall the queen wearing overalls, but I do recall her driving a truck, and they wouldn’t have been out of place there. Likewise cerakote on my double serves the same function as overalls on a truck driver. My double is not particularly valuable, was in poor finish, and made by a largely unknown maker, but it is for me a shootable English double at a price point I could afford and being refinished to a protective finish that is pleasing to its owner.

Just a gentle reminder that this thread asked a metallurgical question not a style one.

Dustin sent a photo a while back of a coated gun, and the thing looked like it had been hot blued in the picture. Fantastic work. The sad truth is, run of the mill boxlocks are approaching zero demand, and if a guy has one and wants to use it, I shouldn’t care too much about what finish he wants to put on it.

Hey, the queen is dead.

Maybe reach out to Dustin (LeFusil, here) to pick his brain about the gun and the process that was used.

The other thing to keep in mind is that the solder joints on a shotgun barrel eventually need maintenance. It is a regular part of ownership, it just happens. If you are close to that point, your spiffy new finish might be ruined by the ribs needing to be re-layed.

Good luck.

Best,
Ted

I know a number of you will not care for the cerakote finish, but for me it serves a purpose, protects my sxs, and doesn’t look bad at all.
In the two photos below are (top) my AYA No. 4, and (bottom)the newly cerakoted gun

url=https://postimg.cc/N5bV6Ct6][/url]




Below is the original finish

The most important part of the coating is that it satisfies you. Not bad. Gil