doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com BP in damascus barrel sxs

I have read several articles, including one by Roy Gunther on this site, about shooting - or not shooting - old (pre-WWII) sxs guns. I know that most pre-1900 guns and many after that date are not proofed for smokeless. That is fine, I like black powder. What are the basic guidelines for determining safe loads and guns in this category? I am eying a couple of very nice old guns and the one I buy I would like to shoot light BP loads in Cowboy Action.I may have posted a similar question before, but have been distracted by moving, so I do lots of stuff on the fly and quickly forget. Thanks.

RST cartridges will be a good place where to have information. They have a lot of choice in antique chamber lenght and low charge for people shooting as at the Vintagers.

Thanks Darnation. Since I roll my own, does RST give out advice or just sell retail?

For a small investment you can load your own.

Rudybollo,

If you tell us what gun you use, we can likely give precise advice about loads, either BP or nitro, that is, assuming gun in excellent condition.

Niklas

Rb - BP is not the key to shooting older guns. Knowing the gun's working pressure and condition are. Nitro loads can be loaded or bought that will have less pressure than is typical of BP loads. That is NOT, NOT, NOT an across the board endorsement of nitro loads in old guns! It is recognition of the fact that under certain known conditions nitro loads work. Matter of fact, typical BP loads are a tad on the high pressure side for many old guns. If you don't know what the working pressure of the gun you have is, don't shoot it - BP or nitro. Once you figure out the working pressure, then shoot either BP or nitro of appropriate pressure. Low pressure loads are good for the metal and low recoil loads are good for the wood.

To your question, perhaps the most basic place to begin is the information suggested by the proof marks if any exist. Knowing the condition of the gun, it's relative age and proof status (current measurements checked against those expected from the proof marks and/or manufacturer's data) will then help you extrapolate what pressures the gun was made to digest as well as what your current alternatives are.

OK, here is one of the candidates. It is marked "Bayard Arms" Pat. 1890. Has "piper Breech" and "damascus Finish" on barrels. CLean, tight and with bright bores. Image of proofs below.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k229/rudybolla/sass/bayardproofs.jpg

A well known CAS gunsmith has one of these he restored and shoots.
Another is a W. Richard side-lever. No pics of proofs.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k229/rudybolla/sass/sidelever3.jpg


So, as the old Nazi said in Marathon Man, "Is it safe?" :-)

I'd take the Bayard to a good smith for vetting, esp. wall thicknesses. If it checked, I'd shoot only low pressure loads. The Richards is a JABC and I'd not shoot it.

Here's some infro about Pieper-scroll down a bit for Bayard
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20p/a%20pieper%20henri%20gb.htm
Pieper guns ranged from junkers sold by Sears and others, to fine guns. They also supplied some very high grade damascus barrels to Remington.
Those are the usual Belgian proof marks WITHOUT the smokeless proof. The R brl is 18.4 or cylinder bore at .724 and the L is 18.1 or .7126.