doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com The pinfire game gun

Also, not that it really matters for the story, but this invoice is not actually from Beringer, it is from Hippolyte Rochatte who calls himself Beringer's student and successor.
And based on the items in the invoice I am trying to guess what gun it may've been. Since they sold percussion caps with it and separate "priming tubes" I am thinking maybe the gun that they were advertising a lot around then such as one like this with the auxiliary chambers: https://www.aiolfi.com/vente/vente-.../armes-depaule/fusil-a-systeme-beringer/

There is a little metal piece you can put in to allow it to load as a muzzle loader too which they advertised:


I think these guns would struggle with working with a pinfire cartridges as the pin would move around a lot in the larger hole in the barrel. I have a handful of various percussion chambers like this. Though for some reason I have never had the chance to buy a Beringer one.

Aaron, I enjoyed your chamber conversions above. What is your take on this Greener for sale ? It looks to me like a pinfire converted back to a percussion muzzle loader. With this conversion done it seems the gun cannot be used as a pinfire.

https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/W.-W.-GREENER-A-12-BORE-PINFIRE-HAMMER-GUN,-NO.-7-226-c-7164CB0923?utm_source=egemail&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=lot_abandonment

Yeah it's the same idea. No idea if it was converted or made that way. But unlikely a pinfire cartridge would work with it.

I have a handful of these, some of which are US patents.


I did a short article on these some time ago, focusing on the pistol cartridges. This gun had an insert that allowed it to work also with pinfire cartridges. And some had a very tapered "pin" to allow it to work in existing 12mm revolvers:

Apologies for reviving a dormant thread, but new information has come to light (to me, anyway) about the use of nitrocellulose powder, or gun-cotton, in pin-fire game guns, long before the Proof Houses deemed to change the rules on the subject in 1896.

Gun-cotton in sporting guns was used as early as 1856, and commercial gun-cotton cartridges were used from 1863 onwards. You can read about it here, in the latest issue of The Vintage Gun Journal.

Steve, this line is never "dead." It is the internet go-to for pinfire information.

As for Aaron's comment on the Novenber 1855 receipt for Blanch's purchase at Beringer in Paris. This advertisement was posted in the scrap-book near it; perhaps this can help (I admit to not reading the receipt carefully and to assuming this was the purchase trip referred to in Blanch's obituary; it may still be and it may be that Blanch bought other technology in Paris at the same time):

UNIVERSAL EXHIBITION OF 1855.
BREAK-ACTION RIFLES
PERFECTIONED

By E. DUFOUR, Patented S. G. D. G. in France,
in England and in Belgium,

At Francis MARQUIS, Gunsmith,
4, Boulevard des Italiens. PARIS.

These rifles offer the double advantage: they can be loaded with pinfire cartridges, and in their defect, they can instantly transform into muzzle-loading rifles, combining all the conditions of an ordinary rifle.

This improvement is one of the most important, as the difficulty of obtaining conventional cartridges, when they are lacking, is perhaps the sole reason that limits the favor that breech-loading arms generally enjoy, and which, most often, prevents their sale abroad.

The inventor has not stopped at this already important perfection.

The barrels of these rifles offer more solidity and durability as they are forged with double twisted iron with steel chambers and washers.

The handling of the weapon and the movement of the break-action are made easier, by being done with the right hand.

And a movable stop operating at the same time as the underguard fixes the triggers during loading, prevents the rifle from firing, and prevents accidents.

These improvements also apply to break-action rifles of simple system.

Protective box for the transport and preservation of cartridges,
Patented S. G. D. G.

Available at Francis MARQUIS, Gunsmith,
4, Boulevard des Italiens. PARIS.

(This print cannot be distributed except inside the Exhibition Palace.)
Imprimerie de Cosfere, rue du Pontceau, 24.

These Dufour patents are specifically relevant to the convo I guess:

And the British patent covered both concepts in one:

Aaron,
Thanks for sharing the written information and especially the drawings. The elegant hammers in the drawing remind me of the fairly well known King George V quote “A gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears”. Also the provision that in emergency a pinfire could be used as a muzzleloader is a new idea to me. Thank you again for sharing this!

Larry

Steve, I have a few Eley commercial loaded pin-fire cartridges marked E.C. Powder and others with Schultz marked on the top wad. Lagopus.....