doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Upsurge in SxS Guns & Shooting them

Well good news for a change.
There seems to be renewed interest in SxS here in the UK also more interest in shooting softer recoiling cartridges which overall cannot be a bad thing. I recently took my Purdey hammer gun to a club shoot and whilst shooting Hull Comp X 21gram cartridges acquitted myself very well , causing lots of interest and comments from the O/U boys who many of which requested to 'have a go'. Lots of smiles .

Nice to hear that. Thanks for the update.

I agree. I am using my Webley 600 to good effect, whilst another uses his Beretta Silver Hawk. Just called in to Greenfields in Salisbury. Last year they displayed only over/unders; now this season they have 24 or so side by sides on view in the shop. A very pretty Army & navy 16 bore side by side caught my eye... Do I need it??

What do you suppose might be driving this trend you have observed?

A new challenge? More fun?

The only time "need" is a consideration is if the "need" satisfies the "want". Gil

The quick answer is YES!

In this part of the UK, Southern Scotland, I'm afraid the only current trend re s/s is the continual spiral downwards. Apart from the traditional users there is virtually no interest whatsoever in s/s shotguns. Regards

Yes I frequently shoot my English guns here at sporting. I recently shot my Lang 1897 hammer pigeon gun and was crushing 50 yard targets with it. Last weekend I shot my Dickson RA and had my moments to say the least.
Problem here in the U.S. is finding shells that will be ok to use. My pigeon guns can take whatever I want to feed them but my 6lb Dickson needs something less on the punchy side.
I had some leftover Caledonian 3/4 oz loads and I shot some B&P Comp1 7/8 loads at 1160 FPS.

I shoot on a regular basis with a group of like minded people and we shoot an arraignment of classic doubles. There could be a Parker or a Smith, a Boss, a Purdey or what ever.
It always fine to look at what the guys have and shoot their guns as well

Same reason why some people (like me) still drive manuals when automatics are, on paper, better in every way - they're fun!

Traditions are about identity and history; trust in memories of the "way things were". When the world seems to be falling apart, holding on to traditions can be comforting, and stabilizing. I think the recent coronation in Great Britain is an example.
Almost no one at Ben Avery is using a vintage double, because Arizona doesn't have that tradition. The few that do are transplants from the Midwest, where "tradition" is likely a new fangled autoloader for the big family opening day in SW Kansas in the 60s. But there was often grandpa's double in the house. And as we get older, a sense of connection to the past becomes more important.
Most of us have probably been through a bunch of pumps, SAs, and O/Us, which we shot well, but now find pleasure in using a vintage (or new) SxS, esp. when we show up the hotshots Some are even using pinfires and single shot MLs!!

I enjoy the technical changes on guns from 1870s through 1900 and I shoot the ones I have.where I live there is almost zero interest ,at local gun shows you might see one sxs I guess there is no tradition here even though everyone here is from some where else.

And less likely that your car will be stolen.

I ran into an older gent at a Federal WMA here in Minnesota, perhaps three seasons ago. We had the place to ourselves, and he was hunting with a Franci O/U that was fairly new. He bought a 12 because it was easier to get non toxic loads. He was dogless, and not far from being one of those old guys who used to hunt, in my estimation, but, I’ve been wrong before. He was very concerned that my 16 gauge Lefever Nitro Special might not have non toxic loads in it, and I’d be fined, or, worse, if the Feds checked me. I had that covered, of course.

It has been many years since I ran into anyone in a woods hunting with anything other than an auto loader or a pump, in that order. My son prefers his A5, as does a coworker who makes his land available to us a few times a season. There is a local guy who shoots his doubles at my club, but, he has a wide variety of guns, and it is just as likely that on any given day, he will have a repeater along.

Virtually no doubles at the club or in the field. Most local gun shops will not even take a double on consignment, they are packed with guns the Pepsi generation has aged out of.

If there is a revival, it missed my haunts.

Best,
Ted

My father didn't shoot S&S when I was growing up and was taught to shoot My first gun(other than an air gun) was a .22 shot moskeet pump. Many years later when Winchester Model 23's were selling cheap he bought a few of them and found he didn't shoot them well. I bought a Model 23 Grande Canadian 20 ga. from him and as said in a different post, shot loose it in Columbia and Argentina in the eighties and ninties. I fell in love with side by sides and except for trap and like games(helice and etc.) that's what I shoot. I am trying to find or make a S by S for those games too.

I've been corrupting some of the people I shoot skeet with. Five years ago I was the only one who shot skeet with a vintage SxS. While the ones I've corrupted haven't bought vintage SxS, three have bought SxS (CZ, BSS, Rock Island & Baikal) to shoot skeet with and a couple of more have dug deep into their safes and dragged out some SxS to shoot skeet and scap with. Prior to me being a bad influence, almost all of them shot skeet and the skeet league with O/U.

Exactly the way to do it. I've gotten at least 5 people to convert to nearly exclusive use of side by for hunting in recent years

Same at my club. I am the only regular SxS shooter out of 280 members. There is one other English gun shooter, but his tastes run to modern Purdey, H&W, and Holland small bore O/U’s. Nobody else at the club even appreciates his Purdey .410 O/U. Everyone likes my SxS but rarely does anyone want to shoot them when offered. I have tried to convert 2 friends, but they have “backslid” to O/U’s. There is progress…my club recently added a SxS championship shoot and I have been asked to display some of my “old guns” in the clubhouse!

True, side by side guns here in the U.K. are going for absolute bargain prices. Put an O/U 20 bore Berretta up for sale and it will go in an instant. Excellent well made English SxS boxlock guns seem to sit on Dealer's shelves for a long time. Continental boxlocks are just about unsaleable. Not complaining too much as I am adding one or two interesting things to my collection. Not as investments but just because they interest me. Any American double gun enthusiast would be like a kid in a candy shop here if they were looking for a decent boxlock. Top sidelocks still seem to command a price but Provincial ones are good value. I recently picked up a cased Robert Lisle of Derby sidelock ejector up with game scene engraving for just £600 and a boxlock ejector with 90% original finish for £175 to add to my collection of locally made guns. Lagopus.....

Example: Here is an excellent Reilly 12 bore BLE SN 33881 (1894) Deeley ejector patent 4289 - use #4519. engraved 'EDENCROFT ROBY, LOYAL NORTH LANCASHIRE REGT.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loyal_Regiment_(North_Lancashire)

6lb 6oz, Barrels - 25” & 28”. choked cylinder and 3/4 in both sets obviously rebarreled with steel barrels - with full engraving, beautiful stock, scroll filed action backs and original case. It was advertised on Guntrader a couple of years ago for £2,850. It's being sold at Lonsdale Auction - estimate £300 - £600.

https://auctions.lonsdalesauctionee...-2023-sale-of-fine-sporting-arms-lot-48/

Examples such as this are commonplace all over the UK, sadly it is a true reflection of the current position re British shotguns. Guns of a reasonable quality in fair condition are virtually worthless. Great for the dwindling prospective purchasers, but sad that there doesn't appear to be a place for the guns in the shooting field moving forwards. Nothing stays the same forever, unfortunately. Regards

I've been shooting a skeet league of 300 targets, first three weeks conventional & last half all doubles w/an A grade Philly Fox bored CYL in both bbl.'s & ¾ oz of reclaimed shot. Shooting it all from a 'dead gun' start as well, just as one would in the field and having a blast! It draws some attention w/its double triggers as well, but I've not noticed anyone particularly interested in buying a SxS because of it. My score of just over 75% on the first 150 targets could have something to do w/that. Had I broken them all, interest would probably be higher. Shooting, in some ways, is like golf. What kind of clubs is the BIG DOG using?

We've a member only SxS Fun Shoot coming up on 11/11. DGC It will consist of a 100-target main event and a 50-target 20 bore event. All sporty clays and on dif. courses for ea. event. They are great shoots and we've had as many as 60 participating in them prior to the Wuhan virus. 40 something seems the new norm but I'm hoping we see a bit better number of entries this time. A lot will be predicated on the weather we draw. We have them annually but there is sufficient interest and participation to do one twice a year and some of us are advocating for that to happen. Meantime, anyone that wishes to utilize a SxS for any of the target games may do so and there are number of members who are doing just that. The interest is there but it is limited.

I certainly don’t see an uptick in people interested in using or buying sxs shotguns here in the mountain west. Myself and 1 other guy are the only ones at our relatively large, busy gun club that shoot SxS’s. We are known for being the “sxs guys”. There’s a lot of young shooters at the club though, middle school and high school shooters (a lot are young females) that shoot on teams and leagues. That’s a good thing, but none of them are using or seem very interested in using SxS’s.
A lot of folks are curious about guns with side by side barrels at the club, but I don’t see anyone else shooting them or buying them. Kreighoffs, Kolars, Brownings, & Berettas etc are king at our club. O/U’s, autos.
I rarely ever see good quality pump guns being used either.
Everytime I shoot my Win. 1897, it draws a small crowd.
I think myself and my buddy are the only ones that also shoot old Winchester pump guns at the club. I’ve only seen a couple of model 12’s or other vintage pumps in the last decade or so.
In the past 10 years I’ve seen exactly 1 other person shooting a sxs….I was so curious I walked over to talk with him about it. It was a Turkish made 28 gauge with a single trigger that wouldn’t fire the second barrel. Needless to say, I don’t think he stayed enamored with the sxs, haven’t seen him or that gun since.


Dustin

I look at websites in England and France, and the prices are quite attractive compared to what we see here, but, I believe that is a bellwether for us in a decade or two.

I grew up with a group of ten like minded kids, that hunted, fished, played, and lived and went to school together. I’m the only one left with a bird dog, and, for the last few years, the only one who bought and used a small game license. Most of those kids have just quietly retired from the game, but, a few have had spectacular health issues that ended everything all at once. None of them will ever buy a gun, much less a double gun, ever again. It occurs to me, that, if I didn’t have a dog, I might not hunt.

Best,
Ted

I just had one of my SLEs repaired by my gunsmith. Broken firing pin and needed a new screw made. He is in his 70's. I have no idea who is going to fix my guns when he retires.

I see the lack of qualified gunsmiths as one of the biggest impediments to the hobby, waning interest issues aside. There is limited quantity of good old guns, and less people to service them.

I am tempted just to buy some more guns just to have him get them into serviceable shape for the forseeable future as a prophylactic measure.

Attended a ring shoot today. Twenty four (older) shooters on 12 pegs with about half using SxS. The other half were OUs and one camo Benelli.

Today 4 of us opened the Dutch chicken season with 3 vintage doubles and an auto loader. Next year, it will be 4 vintage doubles, as the 25 yr old wants to upgrade.

What's a dutch chicken?

I think he meant “ditch chicken” which, is slang for pheasants.


Best,
Ted

Yep. Typing on my phone without glasses. Anything can happen. Just a typo.

Ditch chickens they were. Quite a lot of them.

I am finding the same thing. Not only are there less SXSs but the shows are getting smaller and smaller with less quality of guns. I recently started a thread about the National Gun Day Gun Show in Louisville, Kentucky. I noticed as soon as I got there that they had moved the gun show to another room- a much smaller room, because there were fewer dealers and customers. I like Model 21s. I used to see 25-30 at that show. This time I saw 8-10, if that many. And about 1/2 as many tables. I hadn't been to that show in probably 10 years. The gun stores aren't that interested in stocking SXSs because most people today are younger people and they want automatic handguns and AR-15 type assault weapons. I guess I was the same way when I was younger. Only it was a .357 and .44 magnum revolver and Elmer Keith. Now it is Model 21s.

I was thinking he was talking about a "Dutch Oven" season. Ha-ha!!

I am depressed by this post….I’m just beginning my addiction to these infernal things. No one warned me that the old SxS stuck in back of the safe would one day take over my life. I managed to ignore it for 25 yrs, now I have 3 and looking for more. The new a400 now occupies the back of the big box. I hope the few guys Ive seen at Rio Salado course with doubles aren’t the only ones….

I sold my last non SxS a while back. Hunting, clays, it’s all SxS shotguns going forward.

DoubleTake:

That is the right answer! I'm just back from two days shooting in SW Scotland, with pheasants crossing over us (mere mortals standing in the burn) about 40 yards above us. Most survived, but we had a great time. The previous party of Austrian double-gunners plus loaders did no better than my Webley 600 with 3/8 and full choke.