doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Daw Daily Double

I have been out awhile this afternoon looking for some grouse with this George Daw SXS. I did find a couple to get a nice pair and pictures…

Beautiful images!
Karl

YEEE HAWW Great, Thank you for sharing

Mike

Nice to see an old gun, in regular use, that is in such fine condition.

Nice work.

Best,
Ted

I love that gun, Shrapnel.
JR

Beautiful!

Gorgeous wood. Great gun!!

What year is that Daw, Shrapnel?

Believe it or not, it was made in 1866. It’s hard to believe that a centerfire cartridge gun was made that early in percussion gun era, but it was made in 1866…

Amazing, what a survivor! So, tell me about the fluid steel barrels. That's really what prompted my question about the age.

It was an 1862 patent. I have one but the action must have been bought in by Frederick Gates of Derby and finished by him. The top rib is marked Daw's Patent. I think mine is 1863 vintage. Also Damascus barrelled. Has yours had new steel barrels fitted at some time? Lagopus.....

It looks sleeved to me.

I had that notion as well…

Best,
Ted

Steven Dodd Hughes did a 2 feature article on it for “Shooting Sportsman” several years ago. It is a fabulous article and Steven did a lot of research on the gun and found when it was made and where it was shipped.

Honestly, I can’t remember if he found when it was sleeved, but he found lots of other information on it. There is a spare extractor and 2 spare firing pins under the heel plate, serial numbered to the gun. George Daw was an exceptional gun maker and this is an indication of that work.

I have another Daw underlever that is not nearly as good of condition. Daw guns are very rare and extremely well made guns…

Looks a lovely gun by a top maker,at that level you don`t get `better` ,just `different` !!!

Can a gun that old, with what appears to be fluid steel barrels, not be sleeved? Not judging, just asking...
JR

Shrapnel,
I have a Shooting Sportsman assortment of magazines going back 15, or so, years. When I get the time this, week, I will look to see if I have the article you mentioned.

Shrapnel, there is no doubt that the gun is well made, and old. A fabulous survivor. But, do you not want to know if the gun has been sleeved, or if it has been re-barreled? I cannot imagine owning a gun that nice and not wanting to know. Hell, I want to know and I've never even seen it (in person).

Whitworth didn't patent pressed fluid steel until 1865. It was expensive and the gun trade stayed away from it... yet the patent was extended for 5 years in 1879 and the Whitworth "wheatsheaf" mark became a symbol of quality in the early 1880's. Purdey made his first gun with the steel in 1879 - delivered in 1880. There is no way that barrel is original to the gun. The gun is still beautiful.

It doesn't just look sleeved... it certainly is sleeved.

If you look closely, you can see the joint about an inch in front of the engraved forend iron. And if you look even closer, you can see the Damascus pattern in the original breech section. Of course, the Damascus has been blued over and not etched, so it requires a very close examination. Strangely, I can see the sleeving joint and the Damascus pattern better on my cell phone screen than on my computer monitor.

Appearance-wise, it is one of the nicer sleeving jobs I have seen where fluid steel tubes are joined to a Damascus breech section. The joint is very closely fitted from what we can see of it. It would be interesting to know who did the work, and how it was done. There is absolutely no gap or solder joint visible, and it does not look like a TIG welded joint either. The gun is a beauty.

Of course it has been sleeved! Who cares? Is this the first English gun anyone has ever seen that has been sleeved?

Good grief, what sleeving has to do with the gun is only part of the history, I guess I don’t see what the urgency is to keep questioning that aspect of the gun’s pedigree…

Interesting, to me at least, is that this Daw has survived over 150 years of use with its single cylindrical bolt lock up. There is no complicated Purdey underbolt and no apparent "fitting on the circle". The semi circular cut on the underside probably mates with a transverse pin, but the major locking of the action is via the single bolt. This locking system seems to offer easy manufacture and a more shallow and graceful action. I have seen it on a Belgian Darry hammer gun. I wonder if it was used by other makers.

I care. I meant nothing defamatory about it having been sleeved, I was just curious as I knew that it was a very early gun to have been made with fluid steel barrels originally. It certainly was not meant by me as a put-down.

Agreed ,I didn`t see need for the questions when you had provided such good quality pics of the gun showing the excellent job done on it ! Better to have it in sound useable order than a wallhanger with scrap barrels .......

Anyone with more than a passing interest in good double guns cares if a gun is sleeved. Who did the work, and the quality of said work are often the only remaining qualifier of whether a “fine, old, gun” remains, a fine old gun.

Best,
Ted

“who did the work?” This in NOT Shrapnel’s lovely Daw hammer gun, but the only sleeving job I have seen (other than early Westley Richards sleeving jobs where they emblazoned their name above the Proof House mandated SLEEVED on the exterior of the breeches) that has been signed by the craftsman who did the job.

Note the tiny E.COOKE stamped over the joint.

Once a sleeved gun has changed hands the information as to who did the work is likely to be lost in the mists of time.

The quality, whether replacement or sleeved barrels has to be judged by straightness, striking down , bore finish and liveliness of the re-barrelled gun.

Here is another Daw of the same decade:

https://www.holtsauctioneers.com/as...123+++1800+&refno=203889&image=3

GEORGE H. DAW
A 12-BORE 1862 PATENT 'DAW'S PATENT CENTRAL FIRE' PUSH-FORWARD UNDERLEVER HAMMERGUN, serial no. 237,
circa 1865, 30in. lined nitro damascus barrels (in 2007, slightly loose), the rib engraved 'GEORGE H. DAW'S PATENT CENTRAL FIRE, 57 THREADNEEDLE ST. LONDON. NO. 237.', 2 1/2in. chambers, bored approx. 1/4 choke in both, G.H. Daw patent action, patent no. 1594 of 1862, use no. 237, carved percussion fences, elongated topstrap, non-rebounding back-action locks, permanently attached fore-end with horn finial and crosspin release, best bolt acanthus scroll engraving with feathered bordering, bright finish, 14 1/4in. well-figured stock with engraved steel heel and toe plates, weight 7lb. 9oz.

Thanks Stephen: an interesting advertisement. This part of the ad is super interesting. "G.H. Daw patent action, patent no. 1594 of 1862, use no. 237." Apparently Daw stamped a patent use number for his own patent onto his own guns; Wonder is this was the normal arrangement for all patent holders or just Daw? Is there a Daw patent use number on Shrapnel's gun?

And 1/4 chokes in both barrels??? 12 years before choke boring became popularized? Barrels must have been honed. Oh wait - I missed the "slightly loose" "lined barrels" part of the ad. Holt's really should publish photos of the barrel and action flats of their guns.

Shotgunlover: There are a shocking number of guns out there that do not have the Scott spindle and the Purdy double underbite. Many of them are even well-made guns and some of them are actually English guns of good quality. I know you already know that because, like you, I had this realization myself several years ago. I don't know about you, but it was actually something of an epiphany for me as well. "Good" is evidently not the enemy of "best" in guns either it seems.

Here is the series from "Shooting Sportsman"

The gun at Holt’s is “lined” and must therefore have Teague liners fitted, a process where the original barrels are lined full length with this steel tubes and re-proofed.

The merit of the process was that the beauty of the original Damascus barrels was preserved.

The disadvantage is that whilst with original or sleeved barrels a dent or bulge can fairly easily repaired, I understand that with lined barrels it is almost impossible.

The process has now fallen into disuse, and Mr. Teague is concentrating on his world renowned chokes.

Lloyd3,

The machining for the top lever and the spindle seemed overdone to me. The epiphany came with a photo of a Dickson Round Action side pedal the late Geoffrey Boothroyd sent me. I have gone as far as to design and 3D prototype (in plastic) a minimalist SXS underlever. It was posted here some years ago. Then I discovered that minimalism is an expensive hobby, that was when they quoted the machining cost for what is a simplified SXS action.

If you need a nice case for your Daw, Here's one.

https://www.invaluable.com/auction-...queryID=450c5ea8f8448c5c802feddfa9f11a0a