They seem to be a very good place to start. For the money, I'm not sure you can improve much upon them. The triggers seem to be their only true weak point (heavy & creepy) but once they've been serviced (which is free for the original owners) they're very serviceable. I bought one for my son as a beginner all-around gun (a Bobwhite G-2 in 12). The doublegun version of an 870, and useable for just about anything (with choke tubes and steel tolerant).