doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Twist versus Laminated Steel barrels

1890 Quality Number 1 LC Smith. First year of production at the then "brand new" Hunter Arms Fulton, NY plant.


These are clearly "Twist" barrels (I shamelessly "snipped" this photography from a William Larkin Moore advert).

1891 Quality Number 1 LC Smith, 2nd year of production at the Fulton plant (& my most recent acquisition).

These are not like the "Twist" barrels seen above. My guess is that they are British Laminated Steel (as they have Birmingham Provisional Proof marks on them).

Both guns are "transitional" guns in that they still have features of the guns produced at the original (pre-Hunter Arms) Syracuse, NY L.C.Smith facility (different & more-pronounced breech-balls, the early stop-check extractors, much more-sculped action bases (with a more-pronounced & rounded boss on the bottom and sides of the guns) and the rounded screw heads (pins?) on the lock-plates (instead of the flat screw heads seen on the later guns).




I've heard people talk about how different the early "pre-1913" LC Smith guns were. I'd have to agree with that assertion. This is my first American double in a very long time and I'm pleased to say that I'm impressed with it. The later Elsies I've seen and handled didn't impress me nearly as much.

Glad to see you listened to your better instincts 😉 and “pulled the trigger” on the Elsie. Loads of fun dead ahead.

(thanks for the pics)

Fall Creek: What frankly surprised me was how good this 3-inch drop gun fits me. You can't really tell until you shoot them, but... I'm guessing this gun will shoot "lights-out" for me. Really looking forward to trying that out.

as too "shamelessly snipped"...

when using someone elses images, it is prefectly fine to use those images in a positive manner, with reference to source, as you did...

however, pirating images and using them without reference to their source is, in fact theft...

and what is particularly dastardly, is when that theft is utilized to perpetrate the crime of slander...

I'd use my own photography here as well but my phone and my computer aren't talking as freely as they once did. Need some tech support for all that and my wife is off galavanting around the country (on missions of mercy). Hope to get that resolved shortly.

Is Damascus considered stronger than twist, or laminated? Thanks.

The long version is here
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cvqRzkg0wEjhAAcFWr8gFi7aPFRsSIJ_hahfDxmrNAU/edit

Summary of “Cold rolled” barrel steel tensile strengths. All can be heat treated for different applications (rifle receivers) to much higher strength, and yield strength matters also.
AISI 1005: 40,000 psi
Twist, Damascus Twist, and Crolle Damascus: about 55,000 psi. Crolle had very slightly higher tensile strength.
Winchester Standard Ordnance and other "cold rolled" Bessemer/Decarbonized steels and AISI 1020: 60,000 psi
c. 1900 “Fluid Steel” (Cockerill, Siemens-Martin & Krupp Open Hearth Steel AISI 1021-1034): 75,000 – 85,000 psi
AISI 1140: 85,000
Krupp Fluss Stahl (Homogeneous Fluid Steel) was introduced about 1890 and by reported composition was similar to AISI 1045: 85,000 psi.
AISI 1040 (and modified), Bohler “Blitz”, 4140 Chrome Moly (not used until after 1930s): 95,000 – 100,000 psi
Winchester Nickel Steel and Marlin “Special Smokeless Steel”: 100,000 – 105,000 psi
Remington Ordnance Steel: 110,000 psi

Drew, thank you very much for your reply answer. It inspired me to do some research which led me to a video that just made my day!

I have heard how Artificial intelligence is a threat to art, and after watching this video, I'd have to say that kind of thing has happened before.

The video shows a near-lost art that I find incredible. This is from a guy who sees "just touch the screen" as some kind of magic. Thank you again.

How artisans figured out how to make this is a world of wonder - 'REMINGTON ARMS CO' 2 iron crolle



There are a few modern smiths that have successfully fabricated pattern welded barrels
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jQPuv4yOXpTppdXkAiyGj6LC5bXDAYBCR1DME9lB0JM/edit

If I remember correctly, the laminated steel fared the best in that circa 1892 test, then fluid-compressed steel, then 2-bar Damascus.
Drew's comparison summary is spot on. Moreover, I think I saw a claim of 120k psi tensile strength for Winchester Proof Steel (that came out in 1930 I believe).