doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 2 Patent questions - Boxlock & Martini Action

I have two patent questions which I've been unable to answer.

1) Who in UK held the Martini action patent and when did it expire? I'm assuming it was taken out in 1866-67 when the trials for the successor to the Snider began. It should have expired in about 1880. However, one can find Martini-Henry's made be a number of makers in the early 1880's with the M-H patent stamp and often the Braendlin "B." Was the patent extended at some point? (I've asked this question on knowledgeable M-H sites - crickets).



Here is background info from the Reilly history::

. . . . .In November 1874, the Henry shallow groove rifling patent from November 1860 was allowed to be extended for another 4 years to November 1878. It subsequently somehow (by a process not yet understood) may have been extended again to November 1888. There was some speculation that the extension was tied to the rifling being adopted by the army. In fact Henry received £5000 (equivalent today to $900,000) in 1872 from the British government for the patent use in the Martini-Henry and no more though he petitioned for a supplement.

. . . . . Here is a mystery: Who held the Martini-Henry patents? According to some sources the National Arms and Ammunition Co was formed by Wesley-Richards in 1872 to make Martini-Henrys and Henry granted a license to them. The company manifestly failed to produce what was needed. But in 1875 allegedly it claimed to own the rights to the patents and expected to receive royalties from other companies who had been making the Martini-Henry Rifle. It initially won a court case but the judgement was overturned the following year; it was finally settled in National's favor by the House of Lords. So were companies like Reilly, Lang, etc. paying National Arms and Ammunition Co., for the right to make a Martini-Henry? Was it just for the barrels and rifling? Who owned the Martini patent for the action for civilian makers?

2. Was the A&D Boxlock patent ever extended - when did it expire? The A&D box lock patent was taken out 11 May 1875. It should have expired in May 1889. However, I've found guns marked with A&D pat use numbers two-three years after 1889. Was the Boxlock patent ever extended like the Henry rifling patent and the Whitworth barrel patents were?

Somebody's got to have some information about the A&D box lock patent in UK. It should have expired 11 May 1889. But here are two Reilly's from 1891 with pat use number well in advance of those from 1889:

1888
30363 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. BLE. Top lever, Steel barrels. Built on Westley-Richards style action. A&D ejector pat use #428; AD pat use #6250. #1 of pair.
303xx - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford Street, London. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. BLE, Top lever, Steel barrels. Built on Westley-Richards style action.. A&D ejector pat #427; AD pat use #6265. #2 of pair (Norway)
30375 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (no address - sleeved). 12ga. Shotgun SxS. BLE. Top Lever. Westley-Richards style action.. Anson & Deeley #1 of pair
30376 - E.M. Reilly & Co., (no address - sleeved). 12ga. Shotgun SxS. BLE. Top Lever. Westley-Richards style action.. Anson & Deeley #2 of pair
30446 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 277, Oxford street, London. 12 bore, Shotgun SxS. BLE, doll's head W-R type top-lever; 30" Damascus. AD Patent use #7156
30768 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. BLE. A&D patent use #8245.
30791 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London. .380 BPE. Rifle SxS. Box lock. A&D boxlock pat use #????. (A&D Patent expired sep 1889)

1891
32760 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London. 12 bore SXS rifle. Top lever, BLE. Doll's head 28” barrels.AD boxlock pat use #11096; Deeley ejector pat use #2363 26 Mar 1891 presentation. (A&D Patent expired sep 1889)
32974 - E.M. Reilly & Co., 16, New Oxford Street, London. 12 ga. Shotgun SxS. Boxlock. Ball and Shot; A&D Pat use# 1224x.. 7lb 6oz; half-pistol grip; original rifle,

Argo:

I think with the Belts & Braces, it extended into the early 1890s. Have you checked with Dig or his text.

In the >>Damascus Color<< thread that was hashed out because Daly - H.A. Lindner was still paying royalties for the APUN thru Francotte till about the new proof law in Germany & Lindner switched horses to another serialization scheme about the same time, 1891-1892¿¿

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

By the way you have 1991 as the presentation date....


Serbus,

Raimey
rse

A tornado or similar hit here last night so we have limited infrastructure. I'll search with my computer when services are restored.

Serbus,

Raimey

rse

Looks like the Belts & Braces safety addition was on March 11th, 1883??


Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Thanks for the help, Raimey. I'll hit up Diggory. Hope you are well; tornados in Alabama are nasty - just ask Tuscaloosa.

Thanks Argo44. No lives were lost here like in Mississippi.

Daly - Lindner was engaging the 1882 platform and paying for the APUN:

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forum...mp;Words=apun&Search=true#Post337375

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute_of_Monopolies

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=260790&page=4

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Couchman, R.E. Couchman(Surveyor) was the name for which I was searching:

>>.....the Anson and Deeley contract with Harrington and Richardson called for a Royalty of fifteen shillings per gun, up to 1000 guns per year. After that the royalty was 12 shillings and six pense. Payments were to be made quarterly, starting March 1 and due not later than the end of that month. R E Couchman, 6 Waterloo St., Birmingham was listed as the Licensor. Date Feb. 20, 1880.<<

>>Couchman was a representative of Anson and Deeley. His name appears on the June 22, 1876 contract with Westley Richards, allowing WR the use of the Patent for the sum of 15 shillings per gun.<<

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forum...ords=couchman&Search=true#Post235317

Serbus,

Raimey
rse