doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Help on refurbishing gun case

A friend acquired this old VL&D SxS case at auction and knowing I have a number of J. P. Sauer VL & D 'Knock about' SxS's. Leather and interior rough condition so I need to look into having it redone. Now to the challenge, I do not wish to invest the cost of a new high end SxS into getting it redone. Any suggestions?





This label and the embossed name plate is rather cool

There is an excellent tutorial in gunsmithing forum on how to redo a case. Done by member Damascus. It’s from a few years ago

Gary Nicholson at Caseit in Grants Pass Oregon does beautiful work at a reasonable price. A good gun deserves a nice case. Before and after photos below. Enlarge before photo.

For sxs 40

I would feed the leather,get some better straps for it and leave the rest alone as it`s in pretty good nick. Original is always better !!!!!

A gun certainly does deserve a nice case. There are many leather conditioners, Black Rock et al., that will spruce up the exterior. There are many on this site who do various levels of refurb on cases. Kevin McCormack in VA can make new strap, FEI in Wisconsin can refit, so does Kade Gile in KS, as well as George Pitelko In Rock Hill, South Carolina. Depends more on where you are located. A good
project for a new year. Have fun.

That leather looks to be as dry as parchment paper. Clean and feed it a good conditioner first. Repair any straps can be done by a good leather/shoe repairman. Before you have the inside relined I would use it to see if the present setup works for you or if you need the dividers moved. You might decide to keep it as it is and just clean up the lining material a bit. Relining a case can be done later.

George Pitelko has done a couple for me. He is a true gentleman and great all around guy. He does excellent work.

Kevin McCormack can do straps as well as moving dividers and refitting. He is in VA, not MD. Phone 703-402-5712 Cell

If you need sturdy leather straps because the originals are shot and don't want to spend a fortune, I bought these off of eBay when I did a light tune up on a canvas case and was happy with them:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/262310320345

They come in a few different lengths, I believe.

PS I like the case pretty much as is.

I’ve dealt with cases like this and my best suggestion is you accept the fact the leather is totally mummified. I’ll bet there are many places on it where a slight scratch with your fingernail will flake pieces off. When it reaches that point just accept reality and have the case restored. It looks as though the frame is inrestorable condition.

Contact Jeff from Jeff’s Outfitters, as he is closing he may have straps in his warehouse as he cleans it out.

Also consider checking with https://www.peterdyson.co.uk/ for parts and supplies to reset a case.

Lastly I have had work done by Kade Gile, who learned under Marvin Huey, and have been extremely happy with his work.

kadegile@hotmail.com

"Fine Shooting Accessories" in the UK can make you a set of straps and ship them here

Well LeyFly you have a case that requires a large helping of TLC but it is far from needing a Leather recover job on the whole Leather is extremely resilient if you treat it correctly and take time over it. In this photograph many folks would say it is not worth spending time on it .





A lot of TLC and some effort the case can again look like it is looked after



Amazing what a re line can do and a couple of Bridal Leather straps having the correct Military roller buckles.



It is now the fitting keeper of of this period offering of the gunmakers art, actually it is just case window dressing..




I did do a step by step posting here of how to restore a Leather gun case (the one in the photographs) but is has now slipped into the past though it may still be found. My personal complaint is that when Dave Webber started the diy section it was to be a reference point for projects like this leaving me with the feeling I should not have bothered to take the time and trouble to do the number of these how to do it tutorials. A typical case of "Flash in the pan and failure in the barrel".
One day Webber may see some sense and bring them back to date, this is not the first time I have brought this subject up.

As for your case start the restoration with saddle soap and a damp cloth this will put back the moisture that the Leather is screaming for, do this cleaning about three times over a week. Next if you have any flaking leather use a small brush and some waterproof PVA adhesive to stick the flaking areas back down. Feed the leather with your choice of Leather preparation though I do prefer to use a quality hand cream, works well smells nice and a lot less costly. Finally dye the areas that stand out as bring lighter than the rest of the case. I also did a tutorial on how to re line and re fit the case inside you may be able to find that.

Good luck with your case if you do decide to restore it your self.

Ernie (Damascus).....I can find all the posts made in the DIY forums. It's just a bit tedious if I haven't made them a favorite. One thing I would add is when starting a new thread in that forum, to make the title as clear as possible as to the subject matter. It makes searching so much easier when you aren't guessing what exactly a particular thread is going to be about.

For example, because i know you have created a number of those DIY threads, if I'm looking for one, I click on your profile, then click on the statistic by your name of your total posts (which gives me 50 pages of posts to look at), then click on the button that indicates threads started by you......an easily checked 24 threads.

How are the paper trade labels removed and attached to the refurbished case or if a new paper label is to be put on the felt, how is that done?

An appreciative thank you to all responding to my post. I am encouraged that this case can and will be put back to use with my VL&D Sauer Knockabout SxS's. I will check with Jeff on straps, great suggestion. I have started to work on the saddle soap remoisturizing process, thanks. Top is definitely worst than the bottom and sides of the case as far as leather condition. The hinges, frame and interior dividers are solid save for one piece that can be easily glued and reset. I will leave the St. John decal intact as there is significant history here. I suspect someone in ownership or management of this historic Charlston, SC hotel to be the original owner, T. E. M. Jr., of this case. I appreciate the contact information for professional trade contacts. And I will search for the tutorial. As always this forum is my go to space for assistance. Thanks.

Canvasback. Thankyou for putting in all that effort to guide folks how to find my post's, though it would have been much easier it they where put in the frequently asked questions and not just for me there are other people that have written and posted how to do tutorials, though they like me do not have the right recommendations for that such as a letter of introduction from both Great Grand Parents, an Affidavit from Parents stating that you are a fine upstanding citizen countersigned by the local Witch Finder General.

Borderbil. The removal of maker labels is usually an easy process if the label was fitted in the case roughly before 1960's. the method is to use steam and for a one off use a non automatic kettle (Yes I do know that Tea kettles are as rare as hens teeth on your side of the pond) with a piece of garden hose put down the spout with the other end of the hose put through a hole in a good quality plastic box with some make shift handle . you put the open end of the box that must be large enough to cover the label, a little time and steam will do the rest.
Up to the 1960's nearly all the Brit case labels where applied using either Rabbit skin or or Pearl glue both are water and steam soluble. At one time I was restoring and refitting a large number of gun cases so I used a household wall paper steamer stripper this works well but not worth the expense for a one off.
Removing Leather I used two methods, if the case was to be relined I would just cut the label out and use water through the baize to soften the glue. If it was a leather label change use a small brush water with a little dish soap added working from the top of the label apply water with the brush, it will slowly soak in to the Baize and gravity will pull the water down behind the label allowing you to peel it off little at a time. This is a labour of love taking a lot of time.

A modern guncase having had its label applied with PVA adhesive try any of the above butt in all honesty "Your on your own pall" .

Adhesive for refitting labels to cases I use two, household wallpaper adhesive, or Children's play PVA adhesive it is water soluble and made to come off clothes easily

I remember well that original posting by Ernie, but am still awed by the transformation. Simply amazing what can be done to restore old leather.

wow what a great job restoring the leather. I have tried but maybe not diligent enough

Thank you Damascus. I never thought about wallpaper it's not so common for inferior desecrating as it once was, I should have asked my wife.

To install labels in cases for me I use Elmers glue. It's water based so any overage can be easily wiped off with a wet towel. And just wet it down to remove.
I can say I have never had one come loose.

As my time writing on this forum is now quickly coming to an end though my new word processor has cut down on the misspellings though its punctuation leaves a lot to be desired. I will list other items that will help with the restoration of leather.

For light leather colours use Glycerine soap for the initial cleaning not saddle soap, has less of a darkening effect.
For the case leather hinge line use a 50 50% mix of Cod liver oil and Neatsfoot oil, make sure that you get the real thing undiluted with other oil. This will not cure the cracking but it will prevent further deterioration.
E45 Cream works as a good leather restorer you can also add dye to this, rub it in to the leather a couple of times a week and it will restore that looked after leather glow.
For a real bad case of hard dead leather rub the leather with a mixture of neatsfoot/cod liver oil and water with a drop or two of dish soap added. Shake the bottle well before use.
Just a piece of advice Leather did not get hard and brittle over night it takes many years, so it will take some time and a lot of effort to improve its situation, it may never become perfect but it will become passable for its age. That black case of mine is a hundred and fifty plus years old with its original leather so as I said take your time and feed the leather often.
The final finishing polish I have always used is "Shoe Restoration Polish" it has lots of added colour dye added leaving a good deep shine.
Finally if you have to glue leather purchase the correct leather adhesive for hard ware places though for normal sticking back the odd scuff flake and cuts PVA works well

Why is your writing time on this forum coming to an end?

I followed Ernie’s advice on multiple applications of neetsfoot over an extended period. The first couple of applications did not to my inexperienced eye show much improvement but after several weeks the leather became much more supple. I still apply after the winter, summer, and fall.

Ernie, I agree that your Thread on Leather Gun Case Restoration that was posted in the DIY Gunsmithing Forum is worthy of keeping somewhere easily accessed rather than slipping deep into the archives. This won't be the last time someone needs this information. The Search function here is much better after Dave Weber's last upgrade, but it can still be a bit tedious to find some things if you cannot remember exactly who posted it or how it was titled.

The internet is filled with tutorials on gunstock refinishing and slow rust bluing,, etc., but there isn't nearly as much to be found on this particular subject. Perhaps the nearly unused Professional Gunsmith forum could be somehow repurposed to archive some of the best of the DIY Gunsmithing forum. I don't know how Dave might decide what Threads would be best to keep for easy and quick furure reference... maybe a vote or poll to determine the Top Ten each year or something????

In Re; your tip on reviving dried out leather with a mixture of neatsfoot and cod liver oil. That sounds promising. I have done something similar with a 50-50 mix of neatsfoot oil and beeswax for leather boots, and also to revive a couple old leg of mutton cases I bought last year. I heat it in a tin can to melt the beeswax, and brush it into leather that is warmed with a heat gun to help it drink up more. It really seems to soften and prolong the useful life of the leather. Makes it quite water resistant, and in the past I also used it to prevent deterioration of my work boots from hydraulic oil and grease.

Anyway, I'm glad you are still posting very useful info while you can. I know you told us awhile back that some vision health problems might end that, but hopefully it won't progress and end your time here anytime soon. Your sharing of knowledge is much appreciated.

I just read the posts by Damascus. Very well done. I use most of his methods except for the glue. I use a spray adhesive for the felt and put the dividers in place with a glue gun.

eeb. Without going in to a lot of detail over the last ten years my central vision has detreated so much that I now have approximately 30% working with the other 60% giving no vision at all due to "Macular Degeneration" (up to now there is no treatment other than try to slow its advance down) to add more of a problem I have no depth of field plus the 30% working is in low level shades of grey with a little colour. I have to use a special keyboard plus the having to have all the images expanded on my computer monitor so I only see about 20% at one time so writing text is extremely time consuming and laborious, though my updated word processor helps a lot by spotting the typing errors. It is not all doom and gloom I am not heading for a Guide Dog and a White stick my peripheral vision is unaffected so far though that only starts to become useful after about ten feet. All in all I have lost some things and gained others, also there are more unfortunate people than my self, this is brought home to me every time I visit my specialist at his clinic.

Ernie

The responses here give me hope that I can bring this case back to useable form. I need additional help. In these photos you can see that the case was in the line of overspray with white paint. Top and side only. The left side is worse than the right. How to remove this overspray?

Ernie, I am very sorry to hear this personal news regarding your eyesight. I have valued your knowledge and generosity in sharing as well as your graciousness in answering specific PM questions.
I only hope and pray the best for you.

Condition the leather and a lot of that paint or whatever it is will drop off. Leather that dry looking will come back a lot better than you think but it will take time.

Kevin McCormack refurbished some old LOM leather cases for me. When they got back from him and I saw the change in the leather I was amazed. I contacted him and asked what he used to do it, he told me he first used a product which I cannot remember the name of, as a cleaner. Then he conditioned it with Blackrock Leather-N-Rich. I bought the Leather-N-Rich and use it regularly to rejuvenate leather and keep it healthy. Wish I could remember the name of the product he recommended for the initial cleaning step.

I realize this product has already been mentioned but thought I'd add my endorsement of it, FWIW.

https://www.blackrock-leather.com

another useful product to recondition and preserve leather is Bick 4, which can usually be found at boot shops....it's what my go-to leather guy has recommended.

best regards,

tom

What is the view on using crack filling product on the worst areas with cracking?

In my experience with the rigours of using the case the filling will fall out over time and look worse than when you started.

Just ordered some Leather n' Rich to try out myself. I have used Lexol in the past and it does not work well

Ordered Leather n' Rich yesterday and got the below email this morning. Talk about customer service.


Hi Mills,

I'm the owner of Blackrock Leather N Rich and I wanted to say thank you for your first purchase yesterday.

My grandfather started Blackrock in 1976 and I'm grateful to carry on this family legacy. It's only possible through your support.

If you have any questions about Blackrock, it may be answered here. If not, reply to this email and I'd be happy to answer your questions.

I love seeing what people are using Blackrock on so please share any before and after photos you may take.

Thanks again for your purchase!

Thomas

I would just like to say that the member eed has put a lot of effort in to retrieving from the past my how to post "Refitting of a traditional gun case" this can now be found in the "Diy Gunsmithing section".

Ernie

Mills, I got a similar email after ordering the first time. I like supporting a small family business, if the product is as good as this one is.

Just finished putting some on my snake boots and they look great already. Leather n’ Rich has a loyal new customer in me

Smells good, too.

I noticed that as well. A lot better than the other stuff I have used for sure

Where can I find replacement for these leather pieces for my case?

At your local saddle and tack shop...Geo

LF,

These are not difficult to manufacture yourself. Hobby Lobby, Joann’s, and many other hobby-fabric stores sell belt leather that you can scribe and cut, dye, and wet-mold guides to match. You can stitch and glue the leather around the brass. Weaver, Tandy, and Amazon sell all sorts of stitching or pricking-chisels to match the original as well as harness-saddle needles and thread. There is a YT, many years old, that features and English artisan restitching an old leather brief case. Takes some time but good for these Winter days. Patience, for me, is the key.

Tandy leather ( chain leather outlets) sell bags of scrap that I used to make mine. They will show you how to burnish ( I think that’s what they called it) edge’s very easy. I bought some other tools and leather while I was there and made my own 3/4” sling (very simple) all was like 50.00 a year ago. Watch a you tube video, it’s that easy. I had never done leather work before that. The leather punch with rotating head and different sizes comes in handy and was cheap, but you could just drill holes in leather for your screws to go through.

I just checked his web site and it says his place is permanently closed??