doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Webley and Scott 20

I have this Webley and Scott 20 gauge, and assume it in a Model 700, but it is just better than the handful of 700s I have had and have now. It is a 3-inch 20 ga, 5# 14 oz, 28" barrel, 14 5/8" lop to a checkered butt. Wood is better than the others I have had. It was imported by Service Armament in the 1970s. What can you tell me from the spec's and pictures, Thanks, Daryl

Nice gun.

Sight of the Proof Marks will help date it.

Diggory Hadoke’s “Boxlocks” shows the Webley 700 introduced in 20 bore in 1957 , and the Model 720 as a best quality 20 bore version in 1966.

Parabola, the serial number from the Whatley and Crawford book dates it made in 1970.

It is a 700. I have a 12 ga 700 from approximately the same era & imported by Service Armament that has very nice wood, checkering &very nice execution of the basic 700 model engraving. It always seemed to me that the Service Armament imported guns were just a bit nicer for a given grade. I don't know if this was the era of production or if Service Armament held W & S to a higher standard.

V1B is the Birmingham private viewer’s mark for 1970 so date is confirmed.

I agree with Brittany Man’s assessment, Model 700 with added effort.

I have not seen a Model 720, but from Diggory referring to it as “best quality” I would expect to see cheek panels with dropper points as per the Model 701.

Daryl, I have a 700 from the same period and the wood is far superior to other 700’s I’ve owned. Grain is well filled and oil quality is better than average. Unfortunately, the engraving on this model was always of the poorest quality. Color case hardening from first to last was always good. Nice gun. And they’re good shooters!

Agreed. 700. With nice wood. Other than the nice wood….what in your opinion makes it better than your other 700’s? Fit, finish & engraving quality looks very much standard 700’ish to me.

Daryl,
In my opinion your gun is aa special-order model 700 with 3 chambers, additional engraving and upgraded stock.
W&S in addition to the 700 also made higher grade models, 701 and 702 both of these guns had enhanced engraving & figured wood. The stocks on these guns had drop points.

I had a new condition 12 gauge Model 700 that went to a happy buyer. It was about 10,000 serial numbers earlier. My memory says this gun has higher quality wood and wood finish. Engraving ? From memory, I can't say. Certainly the bluing and case colors on this one stand out. But I cannot say they are better than the 100% gun. As Roy Hebbes points out, the 3" chambering seems unusual. Possibly in 20 gauge the 28" barrels are not the most common. I agree with Brittany Man's thoughts. Who knows for sure, but it's a nice example .

This is 12ga #137884 from 1964, I sold it a few years back new in box. Looks like same pattern but wood was very plain.

This 700 12 bore twin barrel set was heading across the pond but the exporter got cold feet so I became the lucky owner. the case was not part of the package I just refitted a leather case of the same age as the gun. I do think that the stock was a little better quality than the normal run of the mill 700's.

And the POW grip, nice set, what are the barrel lengths/chokes?

Our cousins across the Pond did their best to confuse everyone on the numbering system for the 700 series guns. The 700 is the basic model. Next in line is the 702. Top of the line is 701.

Then there are the 712s, 720s, etc. Those are 702s made for the American market. I thought they were the only 700 series guns made with 3" chambers. But this gun is not a 720. The 720s all have a SN that begins with 720. Can't tell from the photos whether it's a 702. If it is, the stock should have drop points.

Recoil. one barrel set is 30 inches with improved cylinder & three-quarter choking. Second barrel set 28 inches with quarter and full choke.

Just as an afterthought this 700 is one of the very early 1950's Webley & Scott offerings possibly from one of the first batches. These very early guns where given the not so kind name "plain Janes" and in truth they are as basic as they come in looks with their fence post wood stock and twenty eight inch barrels though their weight balance and handling for an off the peg gun is as good as it gets, I can still carry this gun for a day in the field quite comfortably.

Here's the label from the 1964 I sold, it shows all the options and they either checked boxes or penciled out what wasn't relevant.

Rob, I could not bring up the image. It sounds like the image might tell more of the story of Webley and Scottt guns.

Here's a direct link to it (I wish this forum would join the 21st century, it's the only one I am aware of that doesn't host it's own photos).

BTW Darryl I held on to this gun for years hemming and hawing whether to shoot it, until I bought the 1955 POW 700 from you in 2011. Then this when down the road...

Rob, I was thinking it was you that got that gun. Still can't access your dropbox item.

I tried another way, should be showing now.

For comparison to Daryl's gun, here's a Model 720:

http://www.crosnoeguns.com/allimages.php?productid=14882

It appears that the link to a 720 photo I posted a couple years ago no longer functions.

The Crawford and Whatley book has a photo of a 702 on p. 72 and one of a 720 on p. 76.

I got your picture both ways, Rob.

Coming into this conversation some what late , the 720 and 728 models were made in the early 70's specifically for the US market . They were similar to the 702 model in appearance , stocked with panels and points but had 26 and 25 inch barrels.

If you see a rack of 700's the engraving can vary quite a bit in quality. Always the same basic style but dependent on when it was done and by whom. 20 bore versions command a fairly good premium over their 12 bore counterparts here in the U.K. Rare to see 3" chambers so maybe a special order export model. I for one wouldn't like to fire heavy 3" cartridges through it as the recoil would be quite fierce I should think. Lagopus......

This Italian 20 gauge double has 3” chambers:





It weighs 6 1/2lbs, and might not be that bad with a 3” round, but, I’m in no real hurry to find out. 3” 20 gauge ammunition did not impress me when I tried a few, 40 seasons past. I didn’t try it in a sub 6lb gun, either.

Best,
Ted

As I recall and please forgive me but it was 50 plus years ago and memories are bit hazy about some specific details. The 720's were made specifically for the US and had 3" chambers .Thats 3" standard not 3" magnum .These would all be with 26" barrels which at the time every one wanted .
The 728's had 25" barrels with engine turned flat ribs .

Engraving did vary as W&S had to out source some of this as the engraving shop did not have the capacity to fill the order for the contract completion date as the original initial order was for all the guns to be delivered as one shipment .

The rest of that saga is another thing altogether .

I would like to add that the very early 700's made for the British market had 2 1/2 inch chambers though quickly changed to 2 3/4 inch. The gun in the second photograph of my post the "plain Jane" is one such 700 having 2 1/2 inch chambers.

Few Americans buying a gun that was marked for 3” ammunition would realize that it might not necessarily be magnum proofed.

From what I’ve seen, you are mostly wasting your time trying to tell them that fact, as well. You would have to go back many years to reference an American ammunition that was loaded to non magnum specification in a 3” hull.

Thank you, Graham.

Best,
Ted

Back then, there seemed to be a mania for giving 20s designed for the US market 3" chambers. The Japanese did the same thing. All the Ithaca SKB 20ga sxs had 3" chambers. Shooting magnums through a Model100 with 25" barrels (usually weighing less than 6#) might not be very comfortable even if it didn't harm the gun.

Meanwhile, the Ithaca SKB sxs 12s nearly all had 2 3/4" chambers.