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Forums10
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Most Online1,344 Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 7,000 Likes: 402
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 7,000 Likes: 402 |
and for some of us, acid is a rust bluing solution.
Hope you have been well Bill.
All my best, Steve
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Joined: Feb 2008
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2008
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and for some of us, acid is a rust bluing solution.
Hope you have been well Bill.
All my best, Steve I have been well Stevie... thank you for your most sincere good wishes. I'd be even better if you could share with us what acid you use for a rust bluing solution. I am aware that most rust bluing solutions contain one or more acids, in addition to several other ingredients. But none I know of is straight undiluted acid; not those in Angier's book, or anywhere else I've seen a formula. And I've researched and tried a lot of rust bluing and browning formulas until our friend Doug Woodin (PA24) shared his formula with me. The very first rust bluing formula I ever used was a mixture of 60 cc of concentrated Nitric acid, and 40 cc of concentrated Hydrochloric acid. In this, I dissolved all the degreased wire nails it would consume in a ceramic crucible. After all of the violent bubbling and fuming subsided, I decanted the liquid, and diluted it with 1000 cc of distilled water. The resulting solution rusted my highly polished parts very quickly, and took around 8 or 10 rusting, boiling, and carding cycles. By the time they were a nice deep blue-black, I was also left with a matte finish because it was too aggressive. Even though my acids had consumed all those iron nails, and then was diluted over 10:1 with water, I should have diluted it quite a bit more, and kept my rusting cycles shorter. It looked nice, and was very durable, but it was not as glossy as I had hoped for. Even when I use acid to remove rust or old blue, I find it needs to be a rather dilute solution, or it will etch the steel. Common white vinegar removes blue quite well, and it is only about 4 to 8% acetic acid. That's why I am curious about what acid would make a good rust bluing solution, and not remove the finish as fast as it was formed???
A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 7,000 Likes: 402
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 7,000 Likes: 402 |
Hi Bill, Try Pilkington's solution for rust blue, it works very well. You are correct, shorter cycles lead to a higher luster blue. You can try skipping the rusting cabinet as well. I finds this really helps when going for a high luster blue.
I make my own browning solutions out of Angier's and I find many of his solutions to be too strong for my liking. I end up reducing them by at least 50%, often much more as I get closer to finishing up.
I do not chemically remove bluing myself but hand polish everything.
All my best, Steve
Last edited by SKB; 08/11/22 08:46 AM.
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1 member likes this:
bushveld |
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,857 Likes: 384
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,857 Likes: 384 |
I have a pretty sophisticated bluing cabinet it controls heat and humidity by using a boiler/heated water tank I have used Pilkington brownells and laurel MT. I do cut the laurel in half with water .and I use small hard nylon plastic hammer for dent removal I have a hydrolic dent raiser but I have also turned slugs of various diamiter to remove dents.Mark Cooper
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,203 Likes: 1178
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,203 Likes: 1178 |
Just curious, Keith and Mark, when you use a hard nylon hammer (instead of brass) do you still need to use something like the HVAC tape over it to protect the barrel finish?
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,857 Likes: 384
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,857 Likes: 384 |
I don't but most of the barrels I was repairing were going to get reblued anyway I used the 12 ga hydrolic dent raiser with the nylon plastic hammer I have had some dents come out pretty easy dome not so much
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,278 Likes: 531
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,278 Likes: 531 |
and for some of us, acid is a rust bluing solution.
Hope you have been well Bill.
All my best, Steve I have been well Stevie... thank you for your most sincere good wishes. I'd be even better if you could share with us what acid you use for a rust bluing solution. I am aware that most rust bluing solutions contain one or more acids, in addition to several other ingredients. But none I know of is straight undiluted acid; not those in Angier's book, or anywhere else I've seen a formula. And I've researched and tried a lot of rust bluing and browning formulas until our friend Doug Woodin (PA24) shared his formula with me. The very first rust bluing formula I ever used was a mixture of 60 cc of concentrated Nitric acid, and 40 cc of concentrated Hydrochloric acid. In this, I dissolved all the degreased wire nails it would consume in a ceramic crucible. After all of the violent bubbling and fuming subsided, I decanted the liquid, and diluted it with 1000 cc of distilled water. The resulting solution rusted my highly polished parts very quickly, and took around 8 or 10 rusting, boiling, and carding cycles. By the time they were a nice deep blue-black, I was also left with a matte finish because it was too aggressive. Even though my acids had consumed all those iron nails, and then was diluted over 10:1 with water, I should have diluted it quite a bit more, and kept my rusting cycles shorter. It looked nice, and was very durable, but it was not as glossy as I had hoped for. Even when I use acid to remove rust or old blue, I find it needs to be a rather dilute solution, or it will etch the steel. Common white vinegar removes blue quite well, and it is only about 4 to 8% acetic acid. That's why I am curious about what acid would make a good rust bluing solution, and not remove the finish as fast as it was formed??? I have used that formula, or a similar version of it anyway. The “Zischang” formula. I use it full strength, and absolutely LOVE the results, especially when doing Damascus browning. I personally have had pretty good results using formulas with either nitric or hydrochloric in them and haven’t experienced the “over etching” effect that some others do. I think my solutions containing acids in them produce a pretty glossy, shiny, sheeny finish or whatever word is appropriate. That’s probably the result of some other tricks of the trade I’ve picked up, but I digress. I have experienced a side effect while testing a couple of different formulas containing higher amounts of acids….the blacking will sometimes will take on a dark grayish appearance. It’s not unattractive…. Especially if used on some older antique military type guns…It just doesn’t look quite right on a double gun.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 7,000 Likes: 402
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 7,000 Likes: 402 |
I use a formula that I slightly modified out of Angier's and it has Nitric acid as well as Ferric Chloride for Browning. A deeper bite than I like when used straight but I have no issues with it all when reduced. I love the color it gives, a deep rich brown with slight reddish overtones. I tend to reduce the strength of the solution as I get closer to finishing up with damascus tubes. On steel tubes I use Pilkington's straight but short cycles and I am extra careful if the room temperature is over about 65 degrees, which is not too often in my bluing room, only in the summer really.
Last edited by SKB; 08/12/22 02:16 PM.
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,857 Likes: 384
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,857 Likes: 384 |
How many passes at 65 degrees? And how long between cycles?
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 7,000 Likes: 402
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 7,000 Likes: 402 |
I tend to run 10-12 passes and let them rust no more than 2 hrs, a bit less time at 65 degrees, maybe an hour or a little more. I like that greenish color before the oxide begins to turn orange.
Last edited by SKB; 08/12/22 06:44 PM.
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