doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Why are Remingtons second class citizens?

I’m always amazed at how the double gun community snubs the Remington doubles, yet so many extol the virtues of the Ithaca or Parker. Now, Parkers are some of the most attractive doubles ever built, so I can understand their appeal; but mechanically, they’re not nearly as robust as the Remingtons. Ithacas are perhaps (at least to my eye) the most unattractive doubles in existence (ok, that’s a gross exaggeration, but they’re not good looking guns in my book).

Now we come to the Remingtons, which have very strong English roots. The 1889 is a nice hammer gun and the 1894 is a straight up A&D boxlock, and a good one. My only complaint about the Remingtons is they are perhaps the worst offender of having stocks with too much drop. Other than that, I really find little to criticize.

So guys, what am I missing here? Why are Remingtons such second class guns?

Paul Driscoll's 1894 EE is sorta nice

Good question, Kevin. The Remington doubles appear to me to be very well made guns. They are not second class guns in workmanship. The only complaint I see about them is that the buttstocks usually have the drop of a hockey stick. I'd need to just stand on a chair to see the rib. Best thing to do, though, is to buy the ones you like and keep quiet about the apparent bargain prices. I personally am a big fan of the Syracuse Lefevers but we've shot our mouths off so much about how brilliant their design is, they are quickly rising in price, like many others.

It's interesting that for as much as some of us like the Remington SXS, the company was savvy enough 100 years ago to realize the demise of the SXS was inevitable. Remington is still here, everybody else is pretty much gone. As much as I hate to say it, the discontinuance of the SXS and focus on repeaters might have been the smartest move the company ever made.

All the makers offered stocks to order back in the day, but it seems most shooters 100 years ago went for that 3-inch drop-at-heel. A lot of Parker Bros. doubles of the same era as the Remington Hammerless Doubles have the same excessive drop. That Parkers Foxes and NIDs were made up into the 1930s and early 40s, probably a few more of them are found with factory original straighter stocks. Even in the K-grades Remington catalogues stated 2 7/8 to 3 1/8 inch drop with 14-inch length-of-pull carried in stock, drop 2 to 2 3/4 and 3 1/4 to 3 1/2 and pull 14 1/4 to 14 1/2 made to order, no extra charge. The drops on the six Remington doubles in my collection range from 2 1/4 to 2 3/4 inches, the best being my FE Trap Gun. Both of my Father's AE-Grades had about 3 inch drop and he shot them for years with a lace-on Monte Carlo pad.

In 1906 William Heer carried the high average for the year shooting an FE and a CEO trap guns -- 96.3% on 14,055 targets. However, the next year Jefferson J. Blanks of Trezevant, Tennessee, won the Grand American Handicap shooting the Remington Autoloading Shotgun, and by February 1910, Remington Arms Co. had sold out all their remaining stock of break action guns to Norvell-Shapleigh of StLouis and went where the future called. This early departure from the double gun game is likely why Remingtons are slow to get the respect they deserve.

The Joe Loy engraved higher grades certainly don't take a back seat to any American doubles.

Remington 1894 guns are the only guns that I havent observed any goofy cartoon type engraving. Researcher, Have you seen any with substandard engraving?
Ross

Ross: I wondered how long it would take for you to weigh in on this one! I figure it must be raining if you're at your computer, instead of on a combine, at this time of year ... Now then, I thought that by this stage in your collecting career you would have seen a few Syracuse Lefevers, but obviously not (since none of them have goofy cartoon-type engraving). You should check them out ... trust me, they're the finest of the American doubles, although these Remingtons are a close second. TT

Ross: whatcha got against them classy Parker flying turnips?

TT, I think I have seen some goofy Lefever engraving. Im thinking of the BN lunchbox gun with the two bears getting ready to bite the man's backside (hanging from a tree). It was intended to be funny though. Seems like I have seen some kind of silly engraving on Lefevers though by and large the Lefevers are excellent.

Revodoc,
The early GH Parkers are a little better. Here is my 55333 probably in the first 20 hammerless guns made by Parker.