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My first double gun was a 12 bore J.P. Sauer & Sohn imported by von Lengerke & Detmold New York. The Knock About Gun. 28" Krupp Steel barrels. I shot the tar out of that gun as a kid. Then as a moved on the gun sat for years.
About 10 years ago I wanted to maybe get it restocked since the stock was cut and I remembered that gun would bust me in the chops.So I brought it to Alems Gun Kraft and they opened up the forcing cones and I never did get that stock made. Well now is the time to maybe do that stock job or get a take off. But I wanted to know more about the barrels on this gun first.

I searched the web but I would like to know what I should be shooting in this Gun.

Thanks.

Blackpower 65mm proofs with right open & left choked. I would say to equate the pressures, say less than 7000 and use 2 1/2" shotshells of 24gm to 1 oz of shot, i.e. RST "Best" Grade or Polywad's Vintager(24 gm, 5-6K PSI at 1175 FPS-Polywad numbers).

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Proofs:

Post 1892 marks for Imperial Germany

"Crown over S" - smoothbore mark, "Crown over W"- choke barrel mark, "Crown over U" - Üntersuchungsstempel -final definitive proof, "Imperial Eagle"- preliminary proof , 12 in a circle is gauge of chamber and nominal bore, 13/1 is actual bore size, small multiple lobed crown is the perhaps the earlier Prussian crown although I am not sure, the larger crown is ( I believe) the Prussian State Crown.

I suspect the gun was not proofed after 1912, as the crown marks arent usually seen that late. If that ius the case 9 and I could be wrong, the chamber length is indeterminate. Any gun proved after 1912 should have "70" for 2-3/4" chambers, and absence of the number indicated 2-1/2" chamber.

Somewhere you might also find a proof date mark- three digits indicating month and year of proof.

The gun should work fine with normal CIP 65 mm loads, but bear in mind that after close to a century of use, 7500 psi loads might be kinder.

Regards

GKT

After reading this I am surprised I am not dead. As a kid I shot thousands of 2 3/4" loads through that gun. Plenty of woodcock, grouse and ducks.

About 10 years ago I took the gun to Allem's Gun Kraft to have the forcing cones extended and was told it was fine to shoot. OH BOY. Thank God I haven't shot that gun in about 16 years.

I guess I'll make it a wall hanger in my office.

boxbirder:

I haven't seen the action, but I probably wouldn't make it a wall hanger. Sauer produced fine arms that were intended to be used. Is is still on face & tight side to side with the forend off?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

I have a J P Sauer & Son / VL&D NY Knock About made about 1900. This is a heavier gun @ about 7½" with 30" Krupp bbls. It has 2 3/4" chambers & is marked "70" on the extractor face. Due to German proof laws very few guns built prior to 1912 received the "Optional" Nitro Proof. As I recall the mode of testing was made more realistic with the 1912 law & Nitro Proof became mandatory on guns other than muzzle-loaders etc. I purchased this gun at a rather low price as the complete forend was missing. So far haven't gotten a round tuit so haven't shot it yet. I very highly suspect this gun would quite readily handle the regular 1912 vintage, 2 3/4" Nitro Proof, but of course was not so proofed.

Yea;
I see no reason to make it a wall hanger...You yourself actualy proofed the gun years ago...then had a smith second that with his cone work and inspection...I will assume the action is relatively tight or your smith would not have given you the go ahead....If the stock is just a little short there are plenty of pads up to 1 1/2in that could maybe bring the stock back to a usable length...and you would have a fine classic "Knock About Gun".....

boxbirder,

You are getting good advice. The gun is a shooter with lower pressure loads. Take a look at what you will get at wally world:



While this gun was meant to have a working service pressure that is much lower:



Those loads you shot as kid... They were loaded to provide enough pressure to operate a semi-auto.

There are alot of options for ammunition with pressure more in line to this gun. GameBore and RST come to mind. I know there are more. You can get a lot more enjoyment and less recoil.

I hope you post pictures of before and after if you decide to restock this gun.

Pete

The gun is a very tight on face gun. I'll take a few more pics this evening. That left barrel shot some very tight patterns, for some reason it was always my go to barrel. Last night a checked the chambers and they were also cut to 3". I'd like to get that stock higher also since it always slapped me in the jaw.

It was my only P shooter until I left high school. That summer I worked my azz off to pay off a 21. 30" trap with a vent rib. I remember walking in the local sport shop and there it was I had to have it. I put down 300 bucks that night and slowly paid off the other 500. I can remember some gut in there telling me it was a boat anchor and I should get a 1100.

Man I miss those days.

Cutting the chambers to 3" and with long forcing cones in front of the 3" cut would bother me A LOT. I also have a Sauer VL&D Knockabout, and mine has finely struck barrels already. Cutting a 3" chamber and then a long forcing cone is removing a bunch of metal right where pressures are highest. I don't know anything about Aleems Gun Kraft, but they may have messed up a nice gun with that 3" chamber. I would have a gunsmith who specializes in double guns to check it out and measure the wall thickness at the front of the forcing cones before I would shoot it again. Modern ammo is pretty stiff. Just my 2 cents worth. I am kinder to my old pre war German guns than you have been.