doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Ithaca NID single trigger ca. 1926

Chuck - I have several NID's with single triggers. None are marked as Millers, although they all LOOK like Millers. The tang markings are the same as on your gun, although the triggers themselves are all shaped differently than yours. I seem to recall that Walt's book mentions that Ithaca pretty much stole Miller's design and manufactured it themselves in order to save a buck or two. I also recall Walt mentioning that pretty much destroyed the good relationship that Ithaca and Miller had previously enjoyed. That wasn't difficult for me to believe. You owe it to yourself to buy a copy of Walt's book if you have any interest at all in Ithacas. Even if you don't currently have an interest in them, you probably will after reading the book.

B French,
Thank you for letting honesty overcome political correctness. I think Chuck is already aware that the Miller/Howland change over was not cut and dry. Didn't Harry Howland ALSO do some similar creative patent circumventing in order for Ithaca to begin production of the model 37 slide action shotgun? Isn't this what Alexander Brown did to Baker's patents for LC Smith (in the beginning)?
I would love to know what circumstances created Ithaca's falling out, surrounded the most fruitful $$$ patent in the history of SxSs, with it's inventor Emil Flues...

This post referrs to the Ithaca/Miller selective single trigger. There was in the Ithaca Gun Co. files, a 2 inch thick folder on correspondence between Lou Smith and Elmer Miller. My distillation of it was that Ithaca offered a single trigger option with the newly introduced NID. The trigger choosen was the Miller trigger BUT Lou Smith did not want it marked "Miller." Seems Lou charged $5.00 more for the trigger then Miller charged. If Miller marked them, the additional $5.00 would be hard to justify. They went back and forth on the issue, some guns came through marked Miller, some wouldn't. Costs were also debated. Miller finally insisted marking all of his triggers(installed on Ithaca guns) with the Miller name. Ithaca, starting in 1928, then put its own trigger on. Elmer claimed Ithaca stole his design. Lou was quoted as saying I will fight you in court OR with my fists. I doubt either happened. I don't care to debate the legal or ethical issues, this is what happened. I have a log book of Ithaca installed triggers, started in 1928 through 1941. Most were installed by Frank Knickerbocker and some by a man named Ferrel.
When Ithaca/Miller had a relationship, guns were sent to Miller for the installation.
I talked to Howard Miller(elderly son of Elmer) and he was still, after 70 some years, very bitter about Ithaca "stealing the Miller trigger design."

Walt,
Thank you for this information. I can see I really do need your book now that I have several Ithaca's. Please send postal address for payment or can I use the link on the Doublegunshop site and still have the book signed by you?

Chuck, PM sent.

WCS - thnaks for your input. Nothing quite like the guy with the records chiming in!!

Here are two schematics(from Ithaca files) of NID single triggers, eg. selective and non-selective. I think some modifications of the NID non-selective trigger were used on the Nitro Specials and the Western Arms guns.

and here is a factory file photo of the SST.

Walt,
I sent you a check in the mail today.
Thanks

Walt, I have an Ideal Grade L.C. Smith that has on the trigger assembly Hunter One Trigger. The thing that was different by looking at it, is that the selector for barrel change is not next to the other trigger. It is on the safaety, almost set up like the older 3 position safety. Forward right barrel, center off, rearward left barrel. Upon taking gun apart it is a Miller One Trigger. Someone had the good sense to change it over, but used the housing of the Hunter One Trigger.





If Ithaca made their own, they definetly copied Miller's.
IMOP I think the Miller Trigger is far superior to the Hunter One-Trigger, it is a nightmare to work on and not many people will mess with them.

Very interesting. My experience with the Miller/Ithaca trigger is also positive.