doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Unique stock

I fixed the link above... Boy that sure makes my Lon Smith High Monte Carlo Gun look "normal"

I think the stock maker may have consulted with Dali on the design of that one, it kind of reminds me of the dripping clock.

yep, definitely dali ish...

Cool stock for sure. It's general shape reminds me of an Alex Henry prototype rifle of which two or three were ever made. They were specifically for shooting prone, in reverse position (feet toward the target) and had two sets of triggers.

This is the prototype rifle I mentioned. It is a muzzleoader. There is a second set of triggers under Al Robert's right hand on the forearm.

This photo was taken a few years ago at a Creedmoor match at Oak Ridge.

Looks like a roll over stock. Dished out to allow a person to roll his check over the gun so the other eye can see the beads. But the Henry gun is just as likely. Just shows many of the squirrels in the woods are behind the gun and if you have the means you can get a gunsmith to do even weird work.

The hand hold area looks way out of proportion. Nice wood figure!

Ken

Geoffrey Boothroyd in an article in the Shooting Times April29-May5 1976 refers to this stock as unusual and states that it was patented by Alex. Henry and Daniel Fraser in1877. The rifle he illustrates the article with was in .451 calibre. He states that a similar rifle is in the collection of the Kilmarnock Museum and Dick Institute in Kilmarnock. Both triggers are able to operate the action, the normal trigger in the prone position and the forward trigger used when the shooter is lying on his back. There is also a leather fitted pad on the comb of the stock which can be moved forwards or backwards to suit the rifleman.

Used for shooting in the back position which is often used in target shooting past 1,000 yards. Konor will perhaps know the Glen Tilt range on the Atholl Estate in Scotland no doubt. I think that goes back to 1,200 yards although I have only shot it back to 1,000. Only range I know of where shooting is suspended to let deer across or if low flying aircraft come screaming down the Glen. Great spot! Lagopus…..

Donald Dallas’ book “Alexander Henry Rifle Maker” describes Henry and his employee Daniel Fraser taking out Patent number 1559 on 21st April 1877 for the unorthodox stock to be used in the back position popularised by Farquarson in the 1860s. He states “ The Henry two position rifle is very rare with only twenty four such pieces being recorded in the dimensions book. It will be encountered in both muzzle and breech loading form “
“It seems likely that the unorthodox style of rifle was not permitted in British competitions as most examples were sold abroad to South Africa,India and Australia”
A South African agent Albert P Walshe of Kimberley bought 16 of the two position rifles built.
The original patent is illustrated with a straight hand stock and no cutaway under the comb to accommodate the shoulder but rifle number 5298 built for Albert P Walshe is built as per the illustrations posted earlier and as it appears in Alexander Henry’s for the two position rifle in 1878.
It’s price in 1878 was £30 with sights complete

I seem to remember that there were only 2 or 3 examples known today. I may be misremembering however. In any event, it was a cool rifle to handle. I don't know of any rule that would prevent it from being used historically in Creedmoor shooting, and it would be allowed today. The rifle I examined, however, was not shot at the match. Just brought for show and tell along with 40+ other vintage long-range muzzleloaders (mostly Henrys and Rigbys).

For those that are interested, the Creedmoor 150 is an annual match that is leading up to the 150th anniversary match of the original international match that was held on Creed's Moor, Long Island in 1874. We shoot prone unsupported and many of us are converting to the prone back position so these types of rifles are interesting. Cartridge guns are allowed, but only Remington Rollers and Sharps '74s as they were the only cartridge guns at the original match.

The stock seems to be "let in" for a double barrel( shotgun or rifle?), so I opine it was a "crossover" stock rather than for "back position" match shooting.
Mike

And the purpose of the two triggers would be ??
Donald Dallas’ book has pictures of the patents ,adverts and examples of the rifle along with the patent number and a full explanation of the stocks use.
I haven’t been so fortunate as BrentD to see one of the rifles in the flesh but I’m quite sure that the stock would be of no use as a crossover. I have a friend who shoots a John Dickson and Son round action cross stock along with a William Evans and a Webley none of which remotely resemble this two position rifle stock.

I know of it but have never shot on it. My rifle shooting is confined to short range stalking roe now. Once the travel restrictions are eased though I can see myself being a bit more adventurous and making the effort to experience a wider range of sporting opportunities.Walked up grouse would be at the front of the queue along with some form of MacNab.

Konor3inch,
Go back to Mark21's first posting and click on his link, I didn't see two triggers. BrentD's photo, on the other hand was not of the stock in question; is was indeed for "back position" shooting of a rifle.
Mike

Sorry Mike my apologies I hadn’t clicked on the first link I thought it strange that you should think BrentDs photo was a crossover stock.I think it likely that the first picture could be a central vision stock or perhaps a crossover stock as you say.

Konor3inch,
There is no need to apologize, it was easy to miss.
Mike