doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Matska #207

I recently inherited a number of firearms from my great grandfather's collection, including a couple old SxS shotguns. I thought you all might find this one in interesting, and maybe help me learn more about it.

This gun is a 12ga hammer double made by Matska (Matski? Ф.О. Мацки in Cyrillic). Serial number 207.

Barrels are 12ga, 26" long. Both are stamped "T. Kilby". One is also stamped "Sir J. Whitworth", while the other is stamped "Fluid Compressed Steel". I haven't seen anything linking the two - did they join up at some point, or maybe Kilby was selling Whitworth barrels, or producing them?
The barrel is stamped 20797, presumably the serial number. I think the leading 207 is just coincidental with the gun S/N, as there is at least one other Matska with 207xx barrels.

I don't know much about the history of the gun. My great grandfather was a colonel in the army who stayed stateside during the war and went over to Germany in 1945 to help rebuild infrastructure. One of his duties there was to lead visiting VIPs on hunts in the black forest. He ended up with a variety of interesting guns because of that, mostly funded by the US government. I would assume this gun entered his possession during that time. However he was never on good terms with my grandfather, so very little beyond that story was passed on.

Unfortunately the gun is not in the best of shape. It has been stored in a New England attic for 40 years, and it shows. The barrels are also rather pitted. However after a little bit of basic cleanup, all moving parts are still smooth as silk. If it wasn't for the pitted barrels, the gun is 100% functional. The fit of all the parts is truly phenomenal. The engraving is not as ornate as some, but a thing of beauty.

There is also a French SxS in the collection, made in St Etienne but also has some German proofs. I haven't figured out much more about it, but can post a new thread on that if there's interest.

Kilby(s) were premier tube / tubeset makers.

https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=145699&page=1

Lots of interest for any & all of your sporting weapons.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

That sure was one mighty fine shotgun once upon a time.

https://doublegunshop.com/forums/ub...ords=Aleshkin&Search=true#Post130090

Geno's/John's Serial Number list thread:


1)s/n 17, 12 G, Sidelock, exposed hammers, Damascus bbls
2)s/n 123,12G, Boxlock, 30 3/4" Whitworth's Fluid Compressed Steel bbls, 100% rose and scroll engraving on receiver, bbls Weight 5.5 lbs.
3)s/n 177, 12G, Boxlock, 28" and 32" Whitworth's Fluid Compressed Steel bbls
4)s/n 221, 12G, Sidelock; exposed hammers
5)s/n 257, 24G, 2 bbl set
6)s/n 274, 12G, Sidelock
7)s/n 321, 12 G Sidelock
8)s/n 325, 28G-3" gun, with Whitworth barrels
9)s/n 331, 12G, Sidelock


Serbus,

Raimey
rse

It can probably restored to a remarkable extent PROVIDED YOU KEEP ANYONE WITH A STEEL WIRE BRUSH AWAY FROM IT!

Honest, and even criminal, neglect is generally much easier to deal with than the results produced by Bubba with a power tool.

I have an old box lock non ejector where someone used a file card or similar to read the markings, leaving me with the problem of getting rid of scratches that look like the plan of a railway marshalling yard whilst preserving the markings.

It is hard to judge from a photograph but the pitting in the bore looks fairly superficial. At least with Sir Joseph Whitworth’s Fluid Compressed Steel you have best quality material if you can keep sufficient wall thickness.

Are they chopper lump barrels? I believe that I can detect the joining line in the photo of the bottom of the lumps.

I don't pretend to know more about the history of this gun than you or your father, but it shows signs of of having been buried or otherwise hidden under harsh conditions to avoid having to turn it over to postwar authorities for destruction. This was often done and is a lesson about the futility of trying to confiscate citizens guns. After the war, many such guns came to light, often to trade for food , and quick cleaning methods didn't always kill the rust which could continue during years of further storage.
Mike

Looks to be a very good quality gun! As previous posters have said,it needs to be looked at by someone with the knowledge and any work done in a sympathetic manner...Hth and enjoy!

There've been threads here in years past where the Matska was referred to as the "Russian Purdey". Some collectors prize it highly. Careful about offers to buy it...Geo

P.S.: Welcome to Doublegunshop, Mr. Boat-bum. Very impressive first post!

If you ever pull the locks, could you pleasure us w/ a few images of the internals?

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Glad I researched it before getting too into cleaning it up! So far I have only taken a brass brush and some oil to a few of the rusty areas, so I don't think I've bubba'd it yet... No visible scratches at least. I'll consult with an expert before going further though!
My dad said it was probably an old farm gun, likely some cheap eastern European knock-off

I hope that's the case with the pitting. I don't have the tools to accurately measure, but the barrels seem pretty heavily built. In cases of superficial pitting, is there any repair that can or should be done?

Not positive if the barrels are chopper lump, but I think so - I'm new to shotguns so still struggling a bit with the terminology...
This picture shows a very slight seam in the concave cutout. That's the only area around the lumps I can see any visible seam whatsoever. Would it continue all the way through the lumps on centerline?

That is very interesting Mike. Would certainly add another dimension to the story, although I think whatever the history is is probably forever gone by now. If only someone had written something down!

Dear BoatBum,

Yes, those are chopper lump barrels and that is the seam showing in your photo.

One half of each barrel lump is an integral forging with the barrel tube.

I hope that you will not mind by saying that your Dad was wrong in his assessment of the gun.

It is a best quality hand built gun from gun making’s golden age.

As to the bores, you need to get a gunsmith with a wall thickness gauge to give you an opinion once you have been able to scrub out any loose rust.

Boatbum:

Sometime in the 1990s, Griffin & Howe had a number of guns for sale that came out of the DDR after the fall of the Berlin Wall. All had been hidden by their owners during the era of Soviet control of East Germany and they all had similar pitting issues to those shown on your gun. If Paul Chapman is still with them, he could tell you more about that group of guns and what restoration techniques were used to rectify the issues with them.

Dear BoatBum, this is a wonderful story. I researched Matska's guns and wrote an article once. I hope you find the answers there. Regards, Igor
https://wp.me/p461yQ-PT
P.S. Please use Google Translate

Thank you Igor, that is an excellent article! Please let me know if there are any other details I can provide for your spreadsheet.




I will get in touch with them, thanks for the lead.

Sad to see she was found in such condition....I see three options.

Option 1...Find some barrels and restore her to her former glory.

Option 2...cut the barrels about 8 inches up from the breech face....mount her butt on a nice piece of wood...run a 110volt wire up to a light bulb fixture...top it off with a nice shade and you'll have a unique table lamp....(leave it full length and you have a pole lamp)

Option 3...drive her in the ground in your Tomato garden and admire her as she returns dust to dust....

Don't listen to Joe he's only joking! Have it assessed by someone who understands double guns in the trade. I've seen worse looking guns brought back into good use. It's a product of Birmingham but somehow escaped getting the full Proof marks that it should have had. A mid range quality hammer gun and worth a second chance. Lagopus…..

Dear BoatBum, thanks for the article estimation. I can put your shotgun in my database. For this I would like to know its weight, the weight of the barrels and muzzle constrictions. Thank you in advance. Regards, Igor

I was as serious as a heart attack....