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Forums10
Topics39,964
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Mar 28th, 2026
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,751 Likes: 704
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,751 Likes: 704 |
That doesn't really seem to be up Martin's alley. Not to say it's impossible. Although I will say the CCH colours look like the colours of the guy who does Hagn's CCH.
The world cries out for such: he is needed & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 10
Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 10 |
To me this looks like a gun that has recently been completely rebuilt, including restocking, reblueing, CCH( not a torch job), and engraving. I believe in the process, the markings on the barrel flats were removed. These markings would have shown the age, maybe the maker, proofing, whether it was choked or not, caliber( gauge), chamber length, and bore diameters. The "Repair" proof on the water table leads to the question, what substantial repair was required? Assuming the barrels were not bored out too much, it is a nice hunting gun, but whether it is a "between the wars" Sauer or even a Sauer doesn't matter any more. It is no longer what it was, it now what it is.
Mike I started looking at the gun from a similar viewpoint. My concern became collectibility in order to maintain a strong resale and ensure I am not buying a fake if you will. That doesn't really seem to be up Martin's alley. Not to say it's impossible. Although I will say the CCH colours look like the colours of the guy who does Hagn's CCH. Apparently the gun was built by Hagn for a friend and is the only one he has completed.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,504 Likes: 487
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,504 Likes: 487 |
>>Buying a fake<<, that's exactly what we don't want you to do. Upon 1st glance nothing adds up & this looks like a spurious gun. Unlike longarms from the Little British Isles where if you still have the forend iron, you can do a total rebuild & it is a new. Not the case with scatterguns from the Continent. In the end, it may be a quality piece by talented mechanics but with respect to the >>Golden Age of Gunning<<, there isn't any component of collectability.
But still, I would like the full story as we may see it again.
Cheers,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 10
Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 10 |
>>Buying a fake<<, that's exactly what we don't want you to do. Upon 1st glance nothing adds up & this looks like a spurious gun. Unlike longarms from the Little British Isles where if you still have the forend iron, you can do a total rebuild & it is a new. Not the case with scatterguns from the Continent. In the end, it may be a quality piece by talented mechanics but with respect to the >>Golden Age of Gunning<<, there isn't any component of collectability.
But still, I would like the full story as we may see it again.
Cheers,
Raimey
rse
Thanks again Raimey. Something about this gun just wasn't sitting right with me either. Motivating me to post here to learn from others who are much better educated on these guns than I. I have reached out to a gunmaker friend who know's Hagn all too well. I will see what else I can learn and report back. Having said that (and this maybe a dumb question), is there are specific questions I should ask to help truly identify the action?
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,504 Likes: 487
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,504 Likes: 487 |
There isn't a dumb question here. I would ask for a measurement of the action, standing breech to the hinge-pin or thereabouts. The frame with the upper & lower screws resembles a Modell XIV or XVII but on the Modell Nr. XVII, the rear of the frame where it mates with the stock is typically scalloped.
Cheers,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,504 Likes: 487
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,504 Likes: 487 |
If there is the slightest chance it originated @ the Sauer shop, Nr. 220,444 would have seen the light of day in 1923 by this list: http://christophfunk.dk/files/3714/2174/9050/Sauer_artikel_rev2.pdfI'll check Cate's text. Cheers, Raimey rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,504 Likes: 487
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,504 Likes: 487 |
Sauer Modell Nr. 220,074 was a 12 Bore, Modell Nr. XVII
Sauer Modell Nr. 220,404 was a 12 Bore w/ 70mm chambers
Sauer Modell Nr. 220,415 Modell Nr. XVII w/ ejectors - flattop
Sauer Modell Nr. 220,442 was a 12 Bore w/ 65mm chambers
And a date Benchmark:
Sauer Modell Nr. 221,500 - Modell Nr. VII - 16 bore completed on February 27th, 1924.
Cheers,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,029 Likes: 398
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 5,029 Likes: 398 |
p3t3rsn,
If you want it for it's "collectability" and "resale value", you would be well advised to concentrate on documenting its relationship to Hagn and the others working on it. Anecdotal information is great in the hunting camp, but only documentation will convince a potential buyer. Since the documentation that was on the gun, whatever it was, in now gone, that leaves it's more recent work to document.
Mike
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,504 Likes: 487
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,504 Likes: 487 |
But with that said Ford, Hagn didn't even sign it nor do I see his initials. So, @ best it is a one off custom gun or more like a total refurbish, which in the future I do not think will have much collectability @ all with future generations.
Cheers,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 10
Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 10 |
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