doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Winchester Model 21 question

I was using a Model 21 (with auto safety) the other day at skeet. I like the gun for skeet more than I thought I would but I have GOT to remove the auto safety. I think they are different than a typical European/English/Fox/Parker double. Any coaching on the M 21 would be most appreciated. Gil

At 52 seconds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPghrl1-onk

https://connecticutshotgun.co/winchester-model-21-repairs/

Not all that helpful I am afraid, but must not be too hard as they only want $90.

What year is your 21?

Mike

Fun reading
http://bluepike.tripod.com/Blueprints.htm

Hey Gil,
CSMC converted the safety to non-auto on this double trigger beauty.
16 gauge, factory choked Mod/Cyl and used mostly for Skeet.
No regrets.

I have converted several safeties in the past. It requires making a new connector from the trigger group to the safety slide which has an elongated slot

You can buy the part(s) from CSMC and do it yourself. I did it a few years ago.

Same here. I hated the auto safety on mine. I attempted the conversion, then sent it to a gunsmith to fix my mistake. It would have been cheaper to send directly to a smith. Lesson learned.

Mike: It was made about 1940. It belonged to my grandfather, a 2 barrel set 16 ga. He made the stock and though it is short for me, I did a leather covered pad--maybe 1 1/4" thick so it fits me. But this auto safe is a real PIA! Hope you are well. I did a stock on a 20 ga M 21 that came out pretty well and am thinking about doing this one also. Gil Russell

Bill: Thank you for your reply. I looked at their website and didn't see the parts. I would be interested in doing that conversion. When you have time, could you give me some more of the details. Thank you and kind regards, Gil Russell Tucson AZ

LWS: Thank you for the reply. Could you provide some more details on where the problem was? I am inclined to do it myself but you might be able to talk me out of that. Many thanks, Gil Russell

Thank you for the reply. I would be interested in learning more about it--the process and what the cost would be if I find it is beyond my shop skills. Kind regards, Gil Russell

If this particular gun is to be hunted, I�d think twice before dismantling an automatic safety. They are clearly more safe for hunting, esp for the absent minded. If the gun is a tournament gun only, then that�s a different matter.

Doing the conversion does not render the gun without a safety. You can still manually put it on safe if you want. I don't believe CSMC sells any parts for this.

I'm looking at an old Galazan catalog. The part you need is W4521 which is a safety lever non auto safety and is listed at $45.
I also ordered W4621 and W5021 which are safety lever pins for $5 each (these parts are tiny and easy to lose etc).
A friend ordered these parts 2 years ago and CSMC had them in stock.
Let us know how it turns out. Auto safties on a target gun are a pain. That's why the skeet and trap guns had non auto safties.

This from a knowledgeable source:
The auto safety rod on a M21 does two things, at least on the single trigger guns; it does move the safe back on, but it also disconnects the trigger mechanism so both sears can be re cocked. On the non-auto safe version,, after the rods moves back, but doesn�t move the safe, it also allows a spring to return the rod forward so the gun can be fired.. Yes you can cut the safety rod off and it won�t move the safety on, but it also won�t allow both sears to be cocked.

Lots of people have tried what you describe but to change the gun to no auto safe (single trigger) is a new safety reset rod, the vertical part of the rod that pivots on the trigger plate, the safety rod spring that goes on the front of the rod, and the cross pin that holds the spring in place. Galazan has all the parts. The vertical part has an slot where the pin on the push rods operates and just doesn�t move the safety slide when the rod moves back.