doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com SKB vrs Merkel ??

I have 2 SkB's, a 100 and a 280 both in 20 gauge. I've been shooting the 280 fairly well at skeet at least for me...lol
I've always been intrigued by Merkel shotguns and I don't know why.
Other than just wanting one is there a good reason to buy a Merkel 47E 20 gauge to use for upland instead of my skb280?

If you're shooting your 280 pretty well and are satisfied with it, then I'd say you have a decent 20ga for about half the money you'd be likely to put into a nice used Merkel 47E. If you're a fan of double triggers and a splinter forend, that's what most Merkels have. You're stuck with a single trigger (but it's a pretty good one) and a beavertail on an SKB. If you prefer the features you can get on a Merkel in a double for bird hunting, that might be reason enough to consider one.

And you'd likely do OK selling your SKB (or both of them) right here. I think they're pretty much at the top of the heap when it comes to well-made side by sides at a modest price.

I have 2 skb 100s in 20b and one Merkel 8 in 12b.

The Merkel is a far nicer gun, and probably stronger and more durable. Not really any comparison in my mind.

I have a Merkel 47E straight grip stock, 28" barrels in 20 gauge. A fantastic handling gun and well made.

Merkels are finely made guns, no doubt. They are strong and should last several lifetimes ......... but they leave me cold. I could have bought one in really nice condition for a song once. I was allowed to take it home and shoot it. I did, and I did. I returned it with a sincere "Thank you" for the opportunity but, "No thanks".

OTOH, I had a SKB 200E 20 ga. that was a very easy little gun to shoot well. I used it to take my first two Gambels quail in AZ, and my grandson used it very effectively on doves here. Not the overall quality of a Merkel, but easy to like. I sold it when I acquired a really nice AH Fox 20.

Foxes, even the basic Sterlingworths, have something special that Merkels and SKBs don't, IMO.

Merkels are certainly Teutonic. But also certainly not so cold as a low grade American gun. Nor is it as cold as an SKB, which is not one bit easier to shoot than a Merkel, and certainly colder than a grinch's heart. No, if you really want to see someone dis a Merk, you need to call for The Fuse. I'm sure he will be here shortly.

If I were ever to buy an O/U, it would be a Merkel without question. One of the best looking O/Us I've ever seen. But it's still built wrong.

Dollar for dollar, the Merk holds up with any SKB, and lots of other guns as well.

BTW, isn't that a Merk at the top of the forum homepage? Sure looks like one to me.

Correct....Merkel images on the top.

A friend had a Merkel 47E 20ga, and it seemed rather heavy for the gauge. Nice gun, though.

I have Merkels in 12,20, and 28 gauge and love them. Here is my 20 ga. which weighs 5 lb. 12 oz. and is a delight to hunt with.

I will be the first to admit that Merkel's are an acquired taste!
Karl

My first SxS was a Merkel 47E. I ordered it as a pistol grip single trigger before I knew any better.

I wouldn't do that today.

They are superbly fitted hand made guns. There is really no comparison with an SKB anything.

Two very different experiences.

Hi all, I've owned both. I had a SKB 200E and presently a Merkel 147E.

IMO, the Merkel is a much better gun. Handling is better, the SKB was blocky to me. The fit and finish are better with the Merkel. The SKB just had that cheap feel to it. The Merkel just has that quality feel to them.

Don't get me wrong, the SKB's are good guns, no doubt about it. The only issue I had with my 200 was a crack that developed behind the frame. Something they are known for.

Best,

Greg

At one point I owned 5 Merkel's. Then I got bit by the small bore Fox disease and all the Merkel's got moved. Mine were a mix of 47E, 147E, 1620 and even a 28 gauge Merkel. They are hell for stoudt and the older ones IMO are better made then the newer ones. My buddy has a 28 gauge Merkel 147E and a 47E in 16 gauge. He has hunted with them for 20 years and they are still tight as a drum. They are indeed overbuilt. I have owned quite a few SKB sxs. Still have a model 100 20 gauge 28" with chokes opened to .004 and .014. It's my cold weather wearing heavy gloves sxs. I shoot it well and it goes bang evertime.

I know that is out of the OP's question but I really prefer Beretta's in the basic class as the other two choices.
The older BL and the 680 series are well made and handle nicely.

Aren't the berretas heavier?
Seems to me when I was looking at 12 ga guns I couldn't find one under 7 lbs. Maybe the 20's are different??

For todays production guns, how do they rate as compared to their guns from the past?

My Berettas are heavy, but I like them. GR3 and 425 in 12ga, and 426E in 20ga. I�d put the 426E up against the 47E.

I can't comment on the SKB as I've never shot or handled one. I have a 20 ga 147E with straight hand stock and splinter forend. With 27" barrels, it weighs 5 lb 14 oz. It's too tight to comfortably open and since it kicks the heck out of me with 7/8 oz loads, I haven't shot it enough to loosen it up. I'm gonna try some light loads and/or have it loosened up by a good gunsmith.

Merkels have a reputation for being stout guns and based on my experience I agree.

I don't think I'd go that far. Not what I would call svelte by any means.

I disagree, but that's okay. I'm still not going to buy an o/u.

And neither am I....at least a Merkel OU that is....although I was slightly tempted by a long barrel 303e one time.

Owned a 1950s Merkel 200e 16 gauge for a while. Shot it as well as any gun I've ever owned, but foolishly sold it. It was different from the Brownings or the various Italian guns. Not necessarily better, but a wonderful gun I'd like to have back.

From a man that cuddles up with a foe tin Yiltz...


I say you might need to see a Docta' Stanley....

I have never cared for the looks of the newer Merkels. Bobby

what do you consider newer (post WWII? or something more recent?)

What do you not like about them?

To answer the OP's question, no. The SKB 280 is completely adequate for upland hunting. The 100 maybe better.
Now, if you want the Merkel then there's a reason!
Chief

In terms of price, Ithaca SKB and Merkel are not in the same ballpark. They're also very different guns. SKB borrowed a lot from the Webley & Scott 700 series when they made their guns. So you've got a Japanese takeoff on something British . . . with a few American quirks thrown in, like a single selective trigger on all of them; beavertail forends on all but the Model 100. So you're comparing a sort of Brit styled gun (minus the American quirks) to something that's very Teutonic. The common German side by sides--Sauer, Merkel, Simson--all resemble each other very closely.

I've owned a bunch of both. A warm place in my heart for both, because an SKB 150 12ga was my first sxs, and a pre-war Sauer 16 (pretty basic gun) my 2nd. You're not likely to encounter many problems with either. I currently own a 47E 20ga and recently acquired a 16ga 201 OU. Still working on getting used to the latter. I also have an SKB 280 20ga. A local sporting goods store has that same gun but with 25" barrels (mine has 28") in nearly new condition for $1,000. It's on consignment so might well sell for less. If there's a better sxs out there for that kind of money, I don't know what it is--although I wish they'd put a splinter forend (like the 100) on the 280's.

I bought that gun from you and it was a magnificent specimen. It was stocked too high for me and it was too nice to mess up with alterations I just couldn't do it. I did take a few pheasants with it and have a picture of it and two beloved past dogs taped to my safe. I sold it to Larry B.

Just for monkey man ......... doctor's orders.



SRH

Talk about cold -- that looks like air conditioning for the field.

Gifts are not criticized harshly in my neck of the woods by right minded people, Brently. To do so would be extremely rude and ungentlemanly. The inexpensive little gun was a gift from a dear friend who knows of my fondness for .410 doubles. My use of it in the dove field was to prove to my 9 yr. old grandson that the bore is not a toy, but that it should be taken seriously.

Anyone who equates my use of a gifted gun with my evaluation of another make has serious issues.

SRH

Good for you Stanlie. But you are what you are, always looking for a put down. So, you get one back.

Serious mistake? I think not. Not in the slightest.

Enjoy.

Stan, if that�s a box of 3� shells, it�s cheating.

Guilty, as charged. Only another .410 dove shooter would say that.

SRH

Doublegun's cast is the best political barometer in America. Altogether what they say over the years is superior diagnosis to the overpaid and overblown commentators, who only add to the phantasmagoria by swooping from their lofty heights to bayonet the wounded.

Someone who knows what they are doing could take a SKB 280 E 20 gauge with 28" barrels, and open up the chokes, and reduce that beavertail by half and have one helluva bird gun for just about anything for short money.

That is very true.

the longer barrels seem to go for a little bit more money in the 20 gauge, but still quite inexpensive. On the other hand, you could pick up a Merkel for about the same money, depending on which model you were looking at.

Oh the bluster is childs play?

Either that or you didn't have a chance to watch the last few minutes of Lloyd's link about the phantasm of the will of the people, and mercenary no goers back channeling the twisting of shanks in the values of America? I'm sorry, did you miss it, I suppose that is to be expected, or was that selective?

Maybe the model 8. I don't know of any other Merkel that's as cheap as the SKB's. The Merkel model 8 if one can find them is one helluva nice gun.

There are a couple model 8 on gunbroker right now I believe. But probably 12s.

They are considerably cheaper than an SKB 280 which would still need some doctoring to catch up to the Merkel. All you really get for that extra money would be ejectors and a really ugly single trigger.

I never knew these existed until a guy gave me one:

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-f...un_id=101459452

But, even if I had to bu,bu,bu,bu, BUY one, (with my money) I�d take that over any SKB. Correct number of triggers, to begin with. A touch of hand cut engraving, as well, and checkering and bluing as good as I�ve seen out of Europe.

Using the Francis Sell specification 20 gauge version to attempt to learn to shoot off the right shoulder. Recoil seems to bother me more on that shoulder then the left, so, a 20 gauge, for now. A porky 20 gauge, over 6 1/2lbs. But, it is a 3� gun.

This guys price is a bit optimistic, in my opinion.

The only thing wrong with the Merkels I�ve handled was they were all engraved with big assed birds being chased by equally big assed foxes, in what is kindly called �Teutonic style� engraving. Winston Churchill doesn�t work there.

Best,
Ted

Nothing against Merkel or other brands, but once a Parker shooter, always a Parker shooter.





And these are only the entry level D grade.

I had the F barrel opened on mine. The Mod barrel was already on the open side of Mod for a 20ga. So now it's just a question of shooting the L barrel (choked .003) first, and I have pretty much the equivalent of skeet 1 & 2. But with the Merkel 20 and the more recently acquired vintage Ugartechea sidelock, I think the SKB is likely to find a new home before long. Otherwise it will mostly gather dust, and it's too good a gun for that.

Ugly single trigger? It's a single trigger that's pretty darned reliable. Inertia rather than mechanical. But of all the Ithaca SKB's I've owned, I can't recall any trigger issues. If you want those, go talk to the Turks.

I never said unreliable for a reason, Larry. It does work, but damm, it is ugly; not to mention frigid even . if it was blued, it would still be hideous but less obvious. The silvered ones on the 100s and the gold on the 200s are what they are, and you know what they say about life span and ugly guns.

That said, I still have 2 SKBs to go with my Merkel and many other guns as well. So, the darn guns are worth owning in my opinion, but they have their limitations. They are no more reliable than a Merkel M8 nor a spec more reliable either. The Merk has it all over them for looks and warmth while being on par for reliability and about the same money (as the 100s - 280s are a lot more and an M8). At least that's mine opinion.

crs - that Parker looks anything but entry level (like an SKB 100 or M8). That's as fine a Parker as I've seen. Not a big Parker fan here, but I could learn to like that one, a lot. I suspect I would have to trade in both my SKBs and the Merkel to get one, however.

Except that it's damnably hard to fine a Merkel 8 in sub gauge. Whereas sub gauge Ithaca/SKB's are always available. Life, even with an ugly gun is, well, short!
Chief

Chief, there is a lot of truth in that lately, and thus, I own two SKB 20s. At least until I find just the right 16, I think

Hey Brent, '20 MN grouse report is out. Not good news according to the MNDNR. This runs counter to boots on the ground, (anecdotal) reports from the nortland. We'll see, can't wait, I'll be struggling along with a Ithaca/SKB 100 in 20, sold that Miroku!

Chief

If I go grousing this year, it will probably be with an SKB 100 in 20g also. Can't shoot what ya ain't got I guess.

Sorry to hear the counts are down. We are hearing good anecdotal reports for pheasants hear in Iowa, though the derecho may have hammered them. The official counts for the birds is ongoing now and should be ready in early September. But good or bad, we will be out there, unless CV19 gets me first.

It�s an O/U but it�s About the nicest looking and handling 16 gauge I have ever owned and shot. Wood carving done by Paul Merkel.

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, Brent. I like both SKB's and Merkels--but some people don't much care for German guns. What I like about German guns vs SKB's are features you can't get on the SKB's--like double triggers. Like splinter forends other than on the 100. But as noted above, small bore Merkels (or Sauers, or Simsons) aren't all that easy to find. Especially not at prices competitive to the Ithaca SKB's--because not many of them are the basic models, like the Merkel 8. I really like my Merkel 47E for its features, but an Ithaca 280 will cost half the money--or less. A 100 less than that. A pretty trigger doesn't do much to trip the scale one way or the other for me. But 2 triggers vs one . . . that's worth something.

Now that a particular protagonist is gone I will mention why Merkels leave me cold. The stock cheeks on the ones I have handled are exaggerated and have sharp edges, and the rear point is sharp to the extent of being uncomfortable when my hand encounters it.

I don't care for the Teutonic styling of almost all German built top-break guns, Merkel being no exception. In addition, there seems to be none of the svelte shaping that is so attractive to me, such as on a A H Fox action. The bolsters, the deep relief engraving and carvings of German guns, just don't do it for me.

Notice, please, that I said earlier that I believe "Merkels are finely made guns, no doubt. They are strong and should last several lifetimes .........". But, that does not equate to attractiveness, to me. Thus, the reason Merkels leave me cold.

I need no one to agree with me, and will have no disagreement with anyone who feels otherwise.

Best to all, SRH

Thanks, Stan. I first saw Merkels at one of Toronto's fine gunshops in the early 60s. You put the finger on why they left me cold, too. Everything was as you say, obviously all the ingredients of a good gun but not enough to make me want one.

take a look at pre ww1 fox and sauer field guns...they look like first cuzins...

sauers came first...figure ole ah saw a good thing and just copied it, more or less...

https://www.cowanauctions.com/lot/j-p-sauer-double-barrel-shotgun-3076796

https://imgur.com/gallery/ci6wGnW

Some Sauers and Linder Dalys are exceptions to German guns with the Teutonic styling that I don't care for. They don't have it, and can be absolutely gorgeous guns.

SRH