doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Slab sawed or Quarter sawed for gunstocks?

Which is best and why if both are �straight in the wrist�? In terms of sidelock and boxlock, beauty, strength, durability, resistance to cracking, etc...

Slab sawn walnut generally shows more figure, but it is also more likely to be "one-sided" which means one side may show a lot more figure and grain than the other. Slab, or plain sawn wood is more likely to warp or cup.

Quarter sawn wood is more stable, and typically shows more similar figure and grain on both sides of a board or stock blank. Here's an illustration:



As you can see, there are going to be some boards in a plain sawn log that will have quarter sawn grain and figure because the growth rings are mainly perpendicular to the cut side.

For heavy recoiling guns or rifles 1/4 sawn wood is generally considered stronger. Boxloxk or sidelock, the cut of the blank is not critical.

As far as figure goes, 1/4 sawn is more likely to have similar figure on both sides. The most dramatic, fully figured blank I own is 1/4 sawn. I look at each blank individually for the project at hand or future consideration and do not get locked into the 'best" cut of wood. You will see quite a few rift sawn blanks improperly label as 1/4 sawn. You can get a nice stock from rift cut wood but it is the least likely cut to have balanced figure.

If you are wood shopping, look at how the wood was dried as well as moisture content as well as layout and figure.

Actually buzz, as you can see from the illustration I provided, rift sawn wood has a higher percentage of lumber with the growth rings nearly perpendicular to the face of the cut side. So it is actually more likely to have balanced figure than a lot of quarter sawn boards or blanks. But a true rift sawn log will yield less lumber and more waste than quarter or flat sawing.

No, true rift cut wood has the grow rings at 45 degrees to the blank, making it LEAST likely to be balanced.

You can get a lovely stock from rift cut wood but they are most often one sided when it comes to figure. Wonderful examples of wood cut in the 3 different style are shown at hunterbid.com

Keep trying Billie kieth....

I don't have to try hard at all Queen Stevie, because I provided an illustration of rift sawing. A picture is worth a thousand of your incorrect words.

Speaking of incorrect words, "one sided" means that one side of a stock blank will show much more figure than the other. Rift sawn wood is more likely to be more evenly balanced in grain and figure than other cuts.

Keep trying Queen Stevie. Or just quit while you're behind. You can always study the grain of the floor you are standing on while modeling your buckle-strap girls shoes!

Your picture fails to accurately show end grain Billie keith( I will skip the childish gay name calling).

Here is a real picture of rift sawn wood and an angle gauge to help those who are unable to follow along. I see Billie is getting upset and focusing in on fashion again.



I just love a book read expert with no real world experience.

Well, that certainly is end grain. And that certainly is an angle guage that is being held against it.

However, the wood in the picture is obviously not rift sawn.

Saying it is rift sawn will not make it rift sawn.

I just love it when you can't admit being wrong Queen Stevie... such as your definition of "one-sided"

ha! Oh please expert, tell me the cut off wood on that blank then.

What would 45 degrees to the blank be?

Ever carved a stock from a blank?

Yup.....just full of B.S. as usual.

Since rift sawn I essentially cut radially to the center line of the trunk, I would think the grain would be more balanced on both sides of the blank but less figure than quarter sawn.

You are 100% correct Ken. But don't try to convince Queen Stevie with annoying things like facts.

The pictures may have their captions reversed? I believed logs are rift sawn for some quartersawn look, but otherise for maximum yeild. True quarter sawed logs require a bunch of loss in the form of triangular off cuts.


Keith, I'll look back at why I'm thinking different, but I have always known rift sawn boards to show angular grain orientation when looking at the end grain. While quater sawn shows ninety degrees to the face of a board when looking at the end grain?

I believe plain sawn material ends up with the fewest growth rings around the action inletting, the easiest chance of grain running off the direction of the stock, and has the highest chance of looking like plywood.

edit to add, It seems to me there are milling definitions for the sawing process and descriptions of board stock. I happen to be using the description of the board stock. Importantly, I believe if one can get to the pile first, flat sawn wood can have a nicely quarter sawn center cut. I suppose the best bet is to look them over carefully?

You can find any kind of drawing on the internet for riff sawed lumber.



All woodworkers I know of consider riff sawed to have ~45 degree angles for the rings when looking at the butt end, but you can find other definitions as well.

I agree that plain sawed can look like a laminated stock sometimes. But occasionally they can be pretty sweet too.

In the end, all that matters is the individual piece of wood and how it matches with the action and the user's preferences.

Winner, winner chicken dinner!

Finally someone who understands stock cutting and blank layout.

Another Winner!

Nope craigd, only true rift sawing gives a cut with every board face perpendicular to the growth rings... and also is the most expensive because it creates the least yield and the most waste.

As you can see from the last illustration I posted, a slab or plain sawn log will yield a couple boards with true rift sawn end grain. A quarter sawn log will yield four boards with true rift sawn end grain. By definition, the log is sawn into quarters, and then cut with just the saw kerf as waste.

But every board from a log that is rift sawn has the end grain running virtually perpendicular to the face. No matter how desperate Queen Stevie and his girlfriend BrentD wish to say otherwise.

Funny how BrentD says he IGNORES my posts, yet so frequently respond to them. You don't suppose BrentD is lying to us, do you?

Sucks being as dumb as you are.

No answer as to what the blank I posted is?

No surprise.

When it comes to actual sawing, this depiction is not very good. No mill or even hobby sawer will be able to ceate the depicted stepped cuts. Even the plain sawn depiction requires way too many log rolls to complete, but the problem is a log isn't cylindrical, so the loss would be problematic.

By the way Queen Stevie, that illustration that you think is "another winner" clearly shows the log labeled as rift sawn being quartered before being cut into boards. That only proves that you should not believe everything you see on the internet.

EDIT: It looks as if craigd realizes that, but you or BrentD never will, because you are just too ignorant.

We have several local sawyers that will do it. I have 1000 bd ft of walnut cut this way and another 800-1000 of cherry, all stickered and about ready to use after almost 2 yrs.

Billie keith, your fragile ego is on full display.

You clearly do not understand stock blank layout.

How lucky we are to have a book read expert with no real world experience such as yourself grace our forum with your presence.

I'm off to do some stock work today, not that you would have any actual knowledge of such work, besides what you read in a book.

Huh???

So which way was your walnut cut BrentD? And did you bother to actually read what craigd said?

The illustration shows four different methods. And it also shows an incorrect depiction of rift sawing.

Oh wait... now BrentD will go back to pretending to IGNORE my posts.

It's pretty clear just who does not have an understanding of grain structure and milling logs into lumber Queen Stevie. I did not know we were discussing stock blank layout, (actually, we were not discussing stock blank layout. You felt the pathetic need to pivot there to run away from your stupid assertions) but I have frequently posted on that subject without anyone disputing my words. It ain't rocket science, even though quite a few people produce or buy blanks that are poorly laid out.

Oh yes, that stock work that you claim to be doing today, while you are actually here being an idiot... who will you be farming out the actual work to. I hope it's someone with a brain.

You dumbass Queen Stevie, that end cut cold have come from a log that was either slab or quarter sawn. But it could not correctly be called rift sawn, no matter how pathetic and desperate you are to prove me wrong.

Are you surprised now?

We are not surprised to see how ignorant and pathetic you are, or that BrentD is still responding to posts he claims to IGNORE. Two of a kind. No wonder you two found each other and are so compatible.

Do what?

I think if you look through your stash it'll be a mix of cuts. What your picture calls 'live' sawn, I think most folks will just call plain sawn. They set it on the saw bed just once, then keep taking off slices till there's no more yeild.

That's why folks sort endlessly through stacks of wood. If you brought your wood in bulk from a mill, say for a future cabinet project, I believe you are going to have to live with loss due to clean up cuts.

On a side note, I edited my first thought. There seems to be a saw mill definition of the sawing process, and there is a separate description of the grain flow through a piece of board stock. My point of view is of the final blank, not the process it took to get there.

I think I've mentioned before, when I've gone after a log with a quarter sawn hope in mind. I split the piece so it follows the grain, then it's slow going clean up of wedges, shimmed through the planer, and on the band saw. I'd much rather end up with three or four nice pieces, than ten or twelve average pieces.

Craig, he sawed it as shown for riff and quarters. I watched him do most of it. All the local sawyers will do that. No big deal.

I have the good fortune to own enough acres of forest that I have all the hardwood I could ever want. I have them reduced to lumber whenever I need it and have it cut however I want. I sell some as well.

That's a very nice option, no doubt about it. Don't mind me, my experiences are skewed towards digging through stacks of wood just to cut some piece out of the middle of a board, or considering a bit before making the first cut through a raw stump.

There use to be a standard of the following. Plain was 0-30 degrees grain growth rings to the face of the board. Rift was considered 30-60 degrees. Quarter sawn was 60-90 degrees. But to be fair trees are rarely straight without taper and will exhibit several of these features along their length. A rift board can become a quarter sawn or a plain dawn board from end to end. The less change the more stable the board as a rule.

Blanks would seem like they would be so short that they would not vary from end to end but many have major changes in less than a foot. If bought several blanks when first starting out which were reversed so that the wrist was rift or even almost plain dawn and the butt end was quarter. Sometimes you have enough wood to reverse layout, sometimes you don�t. Then they become fore end blanks often. Every stock seems to have good points and bad points. As long as I can get straight grain flow in the wrist I�m happy. The problem with most saw men is they want maximum yield with minimal time and effort where we would rather have one perfect blank than several just ok to semi fancy blanks. Back when I was turning fancy pens on my lathe I learned that often a board could produce one one premium pen blank at the cost of several average ones. But one premium blank is so much better that any number of lesser blanks. Gunstocks are the same. One great or no great ones.

I went with quarter sawed English walnut. It has lots of black streaks on both sides of the blank. Not as much figure as slab sawed, but no surprises and hopefully lest resistant to shrinkage and any sort of warp. I bought it from Cecil so it�s been drying in the Las Vegas desert since 2004.

Anything from Cecil is gonna be good

Nothing at all wrong with 1/4 sawn wood. I still say every piece is unique and you can get stunning 1/4 sawn figure, usually harder to find and more money though. I am working a nice stick from Cecil at moment, good stuff. I'm sure you will be happy with it.