doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Winchester model 21

eightbore, shifting gears, I gotta ask and I'm probably not going to like the answer. I also recently acquired a English SxS. First time out with this gun & there was not doubt that the forend was about to fall off due to a very loose barrel lug. The gunsmith resoldered the lug and now the forend has a snug fit. My concern is that when the barrels are moved side to side, you can hear some of what I assume is metal rolling back & forth between the barrels. I also heard this prior to realizing that the lug was loose. The smith says not to worry that it is just some of the material from the lug that was loose. My fear is that it could be some of that fatal rust you just mentioned. Is there a way to know for sure short of removing the rib?

Best,

Max

Nope, no way. But it's probably just a couple of solder beads. Solder beads tend to be round and go from one end to the other, making a racket along the way.

Get A.H.Fox in very good original condition and the problem will go away. A lot less expensive in lower grades to boot.
The only thing I don't like about my "Fox" is that kluuuunk sound when I close it.
Are you ever going to be confident about using this Winchester w/o diagnosing the problem and fixing it? I wouldn't be.
Model 21 with problem(s) = BIG money pit.

I had the forend lug fixed on my 21 at Gander Mountain in Niles Ohio-great price and service--About $35.if i remember, but now i have the solder beads rolling around. Whats the solution? $1400 in a new rib job. Not for me! Im considering the Beretta fix> wax between the barrels-if i can figure out how to get it in there. The sound makes me sick H

Jagermeister - Re-read the Max quote below ... he's not talking about the 21, already confirmed that the 21 barrel lug is solid.

Thanks, I wouldn't worry about the English one. If there is some rust the worst that can happen is a localized barrel burst with the rib in adjacent area being lifted. Next time prior to purchase don't just ring the barrels, but hit them smartly at breech end with $2 rubber mallet and then shake them like you would milk shake while listening for dry swooooshy nise.

Eightbore, I noted (several times, in fact) that not all model 21s have had, or will have, a loose lug. And, that they can be repaired, and the repair is usually a one time deal.

Is that sarcasm?


I also noted John Olin was aware of the problem, and expect that one fine day we will read about the discovery of exactly when the cutoff date and serial numbers were of the guns that got updated techniques for assembly. There are enough Winchester guys studying whatever remains of the company that I believe it is bound to come out.



The Winchester single trigger as used on the 21 is noted for being difficult to adjust-by gunsmiths and those familiar with the trigger, not me. Just passing the facts along, bro. If you would like an example of an easy to adjust single trigger, I can think of two-the single trigger used on the Western Arms Long Range guns (quite simple, maybe not the most reliable) and the single trigger used on just about any Beretta O/U built since WWII-simple and reliable.

As you might be aware, folks are looking hard a a particular batch of K80s these days, as a few have had rather spectacular failures. Does that taint every K80, or Krieghoff ever built?

Of course not. Does anyone remember Phoenix steel and the Fabri debacle?

Some old doubles are junk, true enough, but, even some real tough ones clean up well, if you have enough money. If my Grandfather had owned a 21 and I now owned it (he didn't, I don't) I'd likely throw money at it making it right.

But, not 'cause it said Winchester on it. Newcomer Charlie missed out on the best of the model 21 arguments here on the board, and, I suspect, the very public failures of model 21s (there have, sadly, been 21 failures at more than one event, and, I mean that, since a failure of any of the old double guns is sad to me) have toned down the loudest supporters.

But, there was a time here, before there was a Vintagers, or a Flatwater, or, whatever, that was wild when the subject of the 21 came up.
Best,
Ted

Max does not have to worry. Thad Scott has three Birmingham "M21s" same right down to barrel mating and wood is equal to very early Winchester guns. The thing is called BSA boxlock. They made some wildfowlers with 2&3/4" and 3" chambers so these 8-pounders could be original spec guns. For < 1k one can get a perfectly suitable replacement.

Jager, those are not even comparable to a M21.

The meister is really just a Winchester Hatemeister. Pay no attention to him. No one else here does. He just likes to run his mouth.