doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Eye dominance and the SxS

This past year I've noticed something unusual in my shooting. I've always had to work through my left (off) eye wanting to take over at times. I'd just squint down a bit when I'd notice it happening and usually it's at times when I'm not well rested. Happens to many I think. Anyway, what's been interesting is it never seems to happen with my SxS guns. They are dead-on centered on my master eye. It's not a matter of my thumb on the forend obscuring the bead because I don't hold my thumb that high. I do know I can shoot my SxS's much more naturally with no squinting required. Is it because the slim horizontal profile gives my off eye no traction? Whatever the case it tends to make me stick with my SxS guns these days.

I`d guess your s/s guns have more cast than others that you shoot with.
I have the same issue with most of my o/u guns which can`t be cast enough due to stockbolts etc.Only one that has enough cast is a Beretta 20b and it fits well.
My s/s guns are all correctly fitted ,so give no problems either.
Hth.

I'm right handed and right eye dominate - I think the opposite thing happens to me when I shoot a side-by-side...ha ha.

Dave, I have had the same issue. Not sure that it is a side-by problem per se. Just a weak "strong" side eye that sometimes gets out arm-wrestled by the left side. A squint or two at the trap range and then things seem to get back to normal again.

I'm left eye dominant. Strongly. I shut my left eye when I mount the gun to shoot. I prefer the sxs, but I don't know that it really helps me shoot any better than an OU. I've been doing it long enough that I don't mind the L eye dominance. But I wish that the vision in my R eye were as good as my L. Not a big deal since I had macular pucker taken care of, but on occasion I will lose a target (or a bird) against a dark background, like trees.

Larry, I have exactly the same problem and with the same solution and problems. I am working to shift it back because it wasn't always this way. My right eye has degenerated faster than my left and I didn't always keep mt prescription up.

It's a weird but good thing in my case. Last night I was doing some gun mounting in the cave and with my OU my left eye would take over, with my A5 my left eye would take over, with my 30" 16 ga. SxS no left eye interference. I guess I'll just stick to shooting my doubles.

Dave, it may well be that the O/U gives your left eye "more traction" and also that the S x S's very large horizontal surface provides a very large amount of linear surface for your right eye to look down giving it more traction, and strengthening it's dominance in that way.

Makes sense to me.

SRH

Interesting that due to eye problems, I have had to switch to shooting left handed and eyed and it works well for me. I grew up shooting right handed and eyed until later in life various eye operations caused me to switch to left handed and left eyed.
I am presently shooting my doubles left handed and left eyed due to an eye operation three years ago. Shooting leftie slows me down, but accuracy does not suffer.
This is also true with my double rifles and lever action rifles, but not with a bolt action where the shooting is good, but working the bolt is clumsy.
Being able to shoot left handed has always been easy for me and on a couple of rifle hunts, it allowed me better shots than shooting righty would have.

Stan, that's a good point. I didn't think of about it in that way, but it makes real good sense.

There is a little device that non-traditionalists often use on shotguns that accomplishes the same thing. It is a long front sight that has a fluorescence when viewed from directly behind, but not with the "off eye", which is at an angle. They are usually either green or orange. Many people mistakenly put them on their gun for duck hunting in very low light thinking they will "help them see the front sight" better in very low light. This line of thinking is counter-productive to good shooting as it sometimes causes one to look at the front sight rather than at the duck.

It's real value is for those with a dominance shifting issue, like you mentioned, as it causes the proper eye, the one behind the rib, to "gain more traction" as you so deftly put it. They look like death eating a cracker to me, but they work for that purpose. I guess the ducks don't know the diff.

Best, SRH

I've had my right eye checked by two doctors. It's not bad with my current prescription--other than for shooting. And a change in prescription won't help. But it's now so much better than it was prior to solving the macular pucker problem that I can't really complain all that much. I was just looking for an easy fix--like a stronger prescription. Unfortunately, both docs tried that with their little machine and it isn't the answer. But considering that before dealing with macular pucker, during a typical round of skeet (depending on background, light conditions, etc) I'd totally lose somewhere from 2-5 targets. I'd see them come out of the house and they'd then disappear. Now I'll very rarely maybe pick one up real late.

Guess I need to make sure that all the birds I shoot flush with the sky in the background.

My problem similar to crs. Right eyed and right shouldered all my life even though I am left handed. When right retina fell off the klutz doctor left a fold in it that blurred the eye badly. So I switched to left shoulder/eye and that was a big problem as my right was still dominant and had to wear a patch over it. Plus the combs on some of my guns were now on the wrong side. Then the left retina fell off and after three operations the eye is useless because of a dark layer at the back of the retina that scalping could not repair. So now it is back to the right eye that is now my only eye. I can't see well enough to hunt upland game any longer. Lucky to see my dog! Had to give up driving in fast traffic and at night. But I can still shoot deer using a scope and managed to bag a Tundra Swan last fall at 30 yds. This fall I hope to bag a few diving ducks if I can get them swimming in my decoys at 20 yds or less.

Stan's thingie is a variant of what is usually referred to as a "bead blocker".
Not a new concept

Gilbert's Two Eyed Sight in Greener's The Gun and Its Development, 1888
https://books.google.com/books?id=LAsAAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA531&lpg



More than anyone likely wants regarding dominance and dominance shifting

Dominance Switching Poll with review of the science
https://www.trapshooters.com/threads/dominance-switching-shifting-poll.778281/

Poll: Corrective measures that have resolved my dominance issues
https://www.trapshooters.com/threads/pol...-issues.778369/

"The Peculiarities of Vision"
https://www.trapshooters.com/threads/the-peculiarities-of-vision.793021/

Finding the �Master Eye�
https://www.trapshooters.com/threads/finding-the-master-eye.852691/

Dr. Barry Nolt on cross-firing and gun fit
https://www.drbarrynolt.com/shooting-glasses/shooting-articles-by-dr-nolt/why-did-i-miss/

Dr Richard Colo discussing eye dominance and clay target shooting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FD3TKy-FCnA

And the extremely short version is that the dominant eye is not necessarily the eye with the best visual acuity, but the one with the "best" visual processing. This is very likely the issue with women who are much more likely to need some form of off-eye masking but who on formal testing are actually not much more cross-dominant than men.
Visual evoked potentials have shown that dominance is related to the difference in latency (speed of the impulse to the visual cortex) and amplitude (amount of impulse).
http://iosrjournals.org/iosr-jdms/papers/Vol2-issue4/D0241924.pdf

Obviously our wonderful brains CAN switch dominance if one eye is severally compromised.

thanks for your links, drew. i'm past 70, and started taking areds for the beginning of md in my right (master) eye about 1.5 years ago. my uncorrected vision is quite poor - in glasses since 1959 - at my worst i was 20/240 left and 20/280 right. i am still corrected to 20/20-30 in both, but with slightly better vision in left and possible md damage in right i can "see" potential for issues in my future.

the segment by dr. colo was quite interesting, and i caught his reference to central vision. once in a while i will look through the offerings on the english site https://www.gunstar.co.uk/. over the years there will be a rare offering of a double that is described as "central vision". makes sense that the brits would develop the most careful means of proper fitting, and the good doctor's explanation helps me understand what is at play.

These would be nice
"Central Vision" Westley Richards
Cast off at face (mid-comb) 3/4"; at heel 1"
https://www.theexplora.com/pair-of-westley-richards-12g-central-vision-sidelock-ejectors/

I'll bet those guns kick into your cheek like a booger, especially when the left barrel is fired.

SRH

Since we're discussing eye dominance may I enquire about a related issue? When one has cataract surgery and lens replacement(s) there are three options for the lens set up, as I understand it. One can have lens for distant vision clarity in both eyes, close up vision clarity lens in both eyes, or one of each. A young lady I know who works at an eye clinic where these surgeries are done says that women get along really well with one of each, but that men, in general, have a much harder time adjusting to that. Obviously, eye dominance has to switch back and forth according to what distance you are viewing, allowing you to use the proper eye for close up and the other eye for distance. But it would seem that one's depth perception would be hurt badly, not having two eyes focusing on an object in order for your brain to "triangulate" and judge the distance.

However, another friend of mine, a man, had this exact set up and said he got used to it in a couple weeks. This would be the ideal way to have it, it seems, if you could be sure your brain could adjust to it. If it couldn't, well that's bad news.

Has anyone here had this procedure done, with different lenses in the left and right eye, and how did it go? Was depth perception negatively affected?

Best, SRH

The right eye problem sounds similar to macular pucker. Any chance that an operation can flatten out the fold? Of course when you're down to one eye, you want to make REAL sure that nothing worse happens to it.

No I asked about unfolding the retina and it is still not possible.
Have lenses in both eyes also so I am immediately blinded if I happen to glance toward any bright light or the sun, even when wearing dark glasses. Outdoors, it is like looking at an orange colored arc welder. A single oncoming car with lights on appears to have multiple headlights till only a few yards away because the combination of lenses and eyeglass prisms cannot send a coherent image to the brain. Really a [censored] on ice or wet pavement as the effect gets doubled! Guess its time to sell my motley collection of American doubleguns.

In regards to Stan�s question regarding different lens in each eye, one near sighted and one far sighted I have this condition naturally with my right eye near sighted and I shoot right handed. In day to day life this works well for me and I normally don�t need glasses to read or see distant objects. I do where glasses for distance at night and reading glasses when doing close up detail work. On occasion I have dominance issues when shooting but if I wear my distance glasses it helps as my shooting eye is my weak one. I have heard of people who are getting this type of surgery using eye glasses with one lense removed to test if they can acclimate. For me it works but I did not have a choice.