doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Have you shed a tear today........................

King:

With all due respect, Schuers analysis is weak - and self-serving. No wonder the CIA can't analyze itself out of a paper bag.

1) A lot of folks have real trouble believing that theology is the driving force behind this stuff. In the modern, secular West, it is strange to find someone who actually takes all the religion stuff seriously, and is actually willing to act on the tenets of their faith. Such as "... Allah wants you to go smite the infidels and you get 72 virgins in the bargain...." And the credulous, the bored, the ignorant, say "sign me up".

2) Only some guy from the CIA would suggest that Bin Laden, et al, dont REALLY mean what they say. Bin Laden and his minions have SAID over and over that it IS about religion, it is about ideaology it is about ultimately establishing the world wide Caliphate.

Like Neville Chamberlain being so sure that Mr. Hitler did not REALLY mean all those nasty things he published in his book.

3) The west ( and US primarily ) caused this by supporting totalitarian regimes in the Mid East? That is absurd. There are no Arab democracies. Bin Ladens late and unlamented ally Al-Zawhiri even spoke on the matter calling "democracy an evil thing". Ok.. so... now the same guy is saying that the Jihad is about popular self-determination agianst totalitarian regimes? But the same folks are trying to establish a world wide caliphate , a theocracy under the control of Mullahs, just like... hmmm.... Iran. That bastion of Jeffersonian ideals.

4) The Wests' unqualified suppoirt for Israel? Wow, he must be reading about different UN votes than I have. Little Israel totally surrounded on all sides by people who make no bones about the fact ( in the Arab press) that they intend to wipe Israel off the face of the map at the earliest opportunity. The PA under Arafat who smiled and signed agreements, and then turned and told the people in Arabic- this does not mean anything.

Based on this reasoning he should suggest that if the support for Israel was more nuanced, the terrorists would stop? How about if the West, just gave up on Israel completely, and let the Arabs drive them into the sea?

Peace in our time, no doubt. The Poles were persecuting Germans who lived in Poland. By golly, so were the Czechs.

The data points directly to ït being about theology. A militant theology driving and striving for the creation of a type of state not seen since the early Ottoman Empire. I do not think it will be successful, but to pain BL and his cohorts as merely folks with a grievance is to foolishly underestimate their motivation.

Regards

GKT

Greg, theology is a part of it, as it seems so much, too much a part of everything, but I'm reminded of the Scottish professor who said, It's not the thing that's the thing but the thing behind it that's the thing. Or, as Gore Vidal wrote in Point to Point Navigation, "I don't think anyone has ever found startling the notion that it is not what things are that matters so much as how they are perceived."

However disparate our views on this, from the evidence it appears our strategy is not working, militarily or philosophically. Pull-outs from Iraq and Afghanistan are favoured by two out of three here, there and everywhere: a three-peat for bin Laden. Changing of our unqualified support for Israel would be a good start but it won't happen.

On a lighter note, I wonder about portents for the future since the commanders-in-chief of the struggle profess to commune with Allah and God. Again, on the evidence, it seems the Gods are in cahoots to bring us together, to stop mindless crusading, to make us strive harder for peace.

No, the time for that has long gone; there is work to be done. As George Orwell had it "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Let's hope so.

George L...it was John Donne not Browning.

regards
Eug

When John Mann talks about education I think that he has the right concept, wrong idea. The world doesn't need more secular learning, but learning that Lucifer plays us all for fools. It is his expressed desire to pit one group against another in hopes of killing and maiming as many people as he can. There are no winners, just losers. Christ is a God of Life. Everything he touches lives. Satan kills everything he touches. How many of us follow the words of life? or the words of the beast? Some people we can help. Sadly, others must kick against the pricks and find themselves at the other end of a sniper's scope. Education is good, but only if it exposes the lies of Islam

Greg, that's only the view of one former CIA analyst. CIA set up a "Bin Laden Unit" to collect and analyze intelligence on OBL and AQ long before even the attacks on our embassies in Africa in 1998. Gary Schroen, who took the first CIA team into Afghanistan--and others with experience in that part of the world--wanted to go after Bin Laden prior to 9/11. They could not get a green light from Washington.

I agree with you that it IS about ideology. Not about Islam per se, because under Islam, suicide is a sin; killing innocent civilians is a sin; and certainly killing fellow Muslims is a sin. (Note that all of the above are happening in Iraq.) The 9/11 Commission got that one right. The problem is radical Islamism, which is a perversion of the religion to further the religious/political goals of certain terrorist leaders.

Larry:
I totally agree. It is the radical Madrasas that I wish to see gone and in their place educational structures that teach that life is the right of all people. Not only life but a life of freedom and respect for all God's children.
The more than ten years I spent in our active duty military should be evidence that I am willing to defend my country. Hopefully no one doubts that I will do whatever necessary to defend my home and family.
That same willingness to defend goes to all men of good will and against to any and all that would bring harm.
I sincerely believe that it is not Islam that is responsible for our problems today. It is the perverting of that gentle faith that is at fault. That and evil men that use the name of religion to subjugate ignorant people of any faith.
Best,
John

What about the Palestinians? How long can they be "sweeped under the rug"?

Eug, would those rough men who are prepared to do violence on the behalf of [the highest bidder] be the contractor Blackwater which will soon be known as the Civilian Aux. Corps? Reminds me of Alaska Barge & Transit in RVN. They had more ordnance than we did. I'm fed to here with the BS. We've got a permanent beachhead in the oilpatch, we're going to keep it, and you can take it to the bank there'll be a bipartisan consensus on that after the 08 election no matter which waffling anti-warrior we elect. Wonder how long before we get a new Draft Act before Congress? Be only fair. The Guard and Reserves have done their bit and deserve to have the burden shifted. I say that as a draftee who never had much use for weekend warriors. Of course those hired mercenaries avoid awaking the silent (snore) but somewhat sqeamish majority.

jack

I know one local "weekend warrior" who was deployd to Middle East for the third time. ...... outragous!
I wish they admitted the war was about oil reserves. Does anyone beside some boo hick in Arkansas, ...., ..... believe it was about WMD, or bringing "freedom"/democracy to Iraq.

I knew that. I wonder why I said otherwise.

George L