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Didn't mean my comments to be a criticism, Owen, merely observation. Sorry if I came across that way.

C.W. Billings of Glen Ridge NJ was captain of the US trap team in the 1912 Olympics. I own his 1899 12ga Francotte engraved Made for C.W. Billings on the rib. It has 26-inch barrels. I think of it as his grouse gun.

I have a pair of SKB 20s. One short (~25"), one long (~27") and I can't hit much of anything with the short gun and yet, I shoot the longer one better than almost any gun I own. I have no idea why. On the pattern board, they both shoot to the same center.

I have a Warrilow Damascus 12 that actually has an A&D number, 28" barrels.

And a W&S M700 that's the A&D design with 30" steel barrels.

The 30" swings better for me.

I stand @ 5ft 8 ins with short arms & small hands. A 14" length of pull fits me to a Tee. 28" is my favorite length of barrel, though I have shot successfully with those from 26 to 30". Do not know how many have noticed it but if one takes a box lock & a side lock, both having identical barrel lengths & an identical LOP the sidelock will normally be about an inch longer in overall length. Therefore if both have barrels of about the same weight the sidelock will have a slightly more forward balance.

The length of the bar will also show a great difference in the balance point in relation to the hinge pin. The difference in the balance point from the trigger is therefore much more meaningful.

I have sated it several times before but the gun which I have consistently shot better than any other I have ever owned is a low-grade J P Clabrough & Bro's 12 gauge back action sidelock. This gun has 28" Damascus barrels, choked 1/4 choke in /both barrels & weighs 6 lb 14 oz. It has a semi-pistol grip stock with cast-off, though I have never measured the stock dimensions, it just fits me.

Obviously there are no perfect dimensions for everyone. Shoot what fits you & what style you like. I, personally, prefer sidelocks over boxlocks any day of the week. The American Lefever Arms Co guns though technically boxlocks in all other descriptions fit the criteria of a sidelock. heir hammers sit a bit further back in the frame than a typical boxlock. then the overhead sears set the triggers back just a bit, so they end up with virtually the same fit & fell as a true sidelock, rather than that of the boxlock.

Owen, I meant no criticism at all. I have a differing point of view, objective handling data, and thought it appropriate to inject it into the discussion. My apologies if I have offended you in any way.

DDA

Stan, have you ever handled a Ruger Gold Label? In an effort to keep the weight down on those guns, they milled metal out of the receiver. The result was a gun with a very definite weight forward bias. I've owned a whole bunch of side by sides, but the vast majority of them were made for hunting rather than target shooting. I think, as you suggest, that much depends on the preference and experiences of each individual. "Barrel heavy", in my mind, defines a gun that has a balance point well in front of the hinge pin. But such a gun may not feel "barrel heavy" to those who are used to guns designed that way. They do to me, because I've owned and shot far more guns that have a balance closer to neutral (right around the hinge pin) or maybe even a little behind it--which could be described as "barrel light".

Brent, where did you find an SKB 20ga with 27" barrels? The 20's imported by Ithaca were all either 25" or 28". Have the Turks made some 27" 20ga SKB's?

Gentlemen, I take no offense at any comments made. Healthy discussion and exchange of ideas are the purposes of this board. The versatility of the 28� A&D is an idea that I have been developing for sometime. Perhaps I am The only one that has these crazy thoughts!

I misremember the lengths of SKBs. I have a long and a short, whatever lengths they happen to be. That makes for a good comparison of the effect of longer barrels since the rest of both guns are really apples to apples for comparative purposes.

Interestingly, the long barreled gun has a very noticeable banana curve to it. Someone here told me that this is purposefully done at the factory when they are regulated. Certainly, the gun shoots a nice, slightly above PoA pattern and I hit very well with it. But I can't steer that 25" gun for beans.