doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com The perfect choke combination for quail

For those of you who get to chase bobwhite or have been able to do so in the past, let's specify wild birds, what choke combination would you consider absolutely perfect for a double triggered 20 ga. doublegun? Having hunted Gambel's quail, I would prefer a slightly tighter choke combination for them. But, this question is for a dedicated 20 ga. S X S bobwhite quail gun.

I am customizing a Philly Sterly Ejector 20 for quail, and quail only. I have my ideas about what would be ideal, but really would like to hear the thoughts of other "quail men". The first barrel choke is pretty easy for me but, keep in mind that the second barrel may be called on to hit a bird again that has been hit lightly and has dropped a leg, or try again for a bird after a closer miss. But, at the same time, not be so tight as to ruin a bird that is a late straggler on a covey rise.

Thanks in advance, SRH

Yes, the right should be very open, perhaps only a couple thousandths. The left is always a personal opinion but I�ve found that I seldom need to use the second beyond thirty yards (that�s actually a long way). So perhaps .010 in the left?

For what it�s worth, bobwhite numbers in the Texas Panhandle this year are very poor. That�s two years in a row of low numbers. But Amarillomike and I are scratching out a few.

Tell Mike I said �Hi�.

No matter what you decide on, one day, you will be out, and wish you had left one tighter than you did, or, looser, or, whatever.

Choke is always a compromise.

Best,
Ted

Why, 'Quail 1 and Quail 2' of course.

.005 and. .015 has been my go to choice for a long time now, for everything including wild quail. When preserve shooting I go to cylinder and .010

Let's expand my original post to include woodcock. It will likely be my go to gun for them as well. I realize there are likely many more woodcock chasers on here than wild bobwhite ones. Shouldn't be much, if any, difference in the best chokes for the two.

Thanks for the replies so far.

SRH

I just returned from shooting the upland slam in Nebraska.

Part of the slam was bobwhite quail.

I found that shooting bobwhites (covies and singles) in the plum brush and Cottonwood thickets, worked best with cylinder choke, light load, and improved cylinder for the second barrel.

The guys that used modified, blew birds to pieces on the rise. I never did. I shot very well actually, and all of my birds were nicely dealt with.

FWIW, my "Jawja" amigo-- as we only see preserve quail here in MI--and our proposed dove season got defeated about 15 years ago--I bought my Utica era Sterly 20 gauge- 28" Bls. DT, EJ from a retired Judge of Probate, he used it for grouse and wood cock.

Just for the heck of it- I "miked out" the chokes-- .007" right barrel (front trigger) and .012" left barrel (rear trigger)-- I agree with all those who replied touting a tighter left barrel, and double triggers- for the smaller upland game birds. I still prefer a 12 bore for pheasant, with the caveat that here, we are most likely talking planted preserve birds-

Sometime when its a tad warmer, I'll take it out to our gun club range and pattern test it on 36" cardboard patterning boards- but IMO-that is a "static" test- how does it pattern on moving targets is the true test- as well as gun fit when swinging through a moving bird--
Happy Turkey Day to you, Jean and all your family--Miss a bob for me, and in memory of Nash Buckingham and Havilah Babcock. RWTF

Me tOo...



Stan no need to ask a question so you can do a show n tell....

We all know you already know the answer to your "choke" question.

Nice to be able to change chokes and tighten up a little on windy days.

Stan, I am still searching for the perfect combination myself. On my last bobwhite hunt, I shot my 16 Bore DMB SxS with IC/Mod fixed chokes. It was too tight. I have a little 20ga choked .005/.006 I will try on my next outing.

Sounds like a fun trip, CZ. What comprised the rest of the "slam"?

I know cylinder is likely enough for covey rises, unless they won't hold for the dog and get up "wild", which happens often. I just can't make myself ream out all the choke in that right barrel. I'm leaning towards what Joe W. likes, just a little choke in the right, and no more than .010" in the left. I can always drop in a spreader that will negate several points of constriction. I use spreaders a lot.

Thanks, SRH

StAAAAaaannn

Spreader loads over pointing dogs is a no no to some.....

Just saying

The Nebraska Upland slam comprises:
Ring neck pheasant
Northern Bobwhite quail
Greater Prairie Chicken
Sharp tailed grouse

You get a patch and a poster for completing it.

Lots of flooding in the Sandhills.
Very strange seeing cactus sticking out of ice.

That's nice, CZ. Thanks.

In the old days of wild bobwhites there was seldom a quail gun used in the South that was more open than IC. Men used what was sold and, unless someone ordered special chokes in a gun, very few were more open that that. With the old paper shells and no plastic shot cups the IC probably delivered something on the order of what today's shells would out of a .005", or skeet, choke.

My use of a spreader would likely be limited to flushes on woodcock. I've never seen a woodcock flush yet that would endanger a dog with a spreader load. They don't get up like quail. They go UP first.

SRH

Stan,
As a Michigan grouse and woodcock hunter, I've been doing very well with .003 right and .011 left which is how my Churchill came choked, and I have been very happy with it. My shell of choice has been RST's #7's in both barrels.
I hope this helps,
Karl

A happy and peaceful Thanksgiving to all!

That sounds like a great combination, Karl. Thanks.

Is that in a 20, or another gauge?

SRH

When I hunted quail a lot, I would pace off the distance of many of the birds I shot. The majority were between 17 and 21 yards. Thirty yards would have been a very long shot for me. My 20 gauge fox is .005 and .012.

With a little lightweight gun like this one I have a tendency to get on a quail too quickly, occasionally. Not everytime, of course, but enough to know better than to have too much choke in the first barrel.

Woodcock ......... now that's another story. I'm still in the novice stage with them. Gil (GLS) is coaching me, but I'm afraid he's gonna give it up as a lost cause before we see much improvement. Maybe this gun will help ............ anyone ever heard that before?

SRH

Stan,
The gun I mentioned is a Churchill 2 1/2" 12 gauge. It was purchased because it was light and quick, perfect for grouse and woodcock hunting all day. Early season finds me using a #8's/#7's combination right and left, switching to #7's and #6's when the leaves drop.
When I shoot for hunt tests that plant quail, I use #8 1/2 and #7's.
Best of luck for your woodcock hunting, they are certainly addictive little birds, one of my favorites!
Karl

Best bird shot I ever hunted with shot a Browning A-5 16ga with a cylinder fixed choke. He often dropped three on a covey rise. He in fact was my maternal Grandfather and I shot the gun for a while after his demise, but was never as good with it as he was. My son John has the gun now...Geo

Screw in chokes are of course the correct answer to Stan's question. Conditions dictate choke need.

P.S.: Personally, my favorite bird gun is a Reilly sxs with M&F chokes. I shoot it with spreaders.

Most of the old Bird' hunters around my area, as I was growing up, used either a pump or auto with a 26" IC barrel., usually a 12. It is I think worth noting that most of these older guns marked IC was actually bored with what should be termed a � choke or about .010 constriction.

Although I never kept records as such the gun which I Know I had the highest ratio of kills to shots fired on both Quail & Woodcock I have mentioned here several times before.

It was a Birmingham built & proofed J P Clabrough back action sidelock 12 with 28" Damascus barrels, with both having about .010" (�) choke. It weighs 6 lb 14 oz & just happened to fit me perfectly. I used 1 oz loads of #8 shot at around 1125 fps @ about 8k psi. These were loaded with Rem Power Piston wads & I never experienced undue mangling at normal ranges for either.

At the time I also did a lot of "Cottontail" chasing with beagles & this same gun & load proved idea for that with the substitution of #6 for the #8 shot.

IMHO a gun bored with .010 choke is good for most anything, assuming appropriate loads, inside of 40/45 yards. I have never seen much need for less & if your shooting calls for more might as well skip to at least a 3/4 choke.

20 ga, .005� and .015� with Remington ShurShots #7 1/2 shot works great for me, unless I shoot the quail too close.

Thanks, buzz. I know you definitely have experience with wild birds. I've been in contact with a highly respected friend in TX who has taken more wild birds in his life than any other person I know of, literally thousands. He contacted me by p.m. with some very good, and appreciated information, also.

I have settled on .005" for the right barrel, but the left is still unsettled. Likely will be somewhere in the .010" - .015" range. This is a little out of my comfort zone, considering how open to go, as I have always leaned towards the tighter side of choking, in any situation. Fun deciding, though.

The original 2 1/2" chambers will be lengthened to 2 3/4", the chokes opened to whatever I settle on, and it will be used as is for now. I have a nice blank I've had a couple years, and will restock it myself eventually, to my dimensions.

Thanks for all the useful feedback. SRH

Stan, I know you are thinking of a 20 gauge and I am referring here to a 12 gauge but....

Last summer (so I'm on my second season with it) I had my Lovena sidelock with 28" barrels opened to .005 and .015. I think the 20 gauge equivalent may be around .004 and .013. Of course each gun and load is different so YMMV.

However, it has quickly become my absolute favorite for ruffed grouse, woodcock and the preserve birds I shoot (pheasant and chukar). While I haven't been hunting them for a few years I imagine I will love it when I get back to hunting huns, which are covey birds like quail.

I had toyed with something even more open (most of the rest of my guns, 12s and 16s, are choked in various combinations between .020 and .045) but just could not bring myself to do it. Now however, I am considering opening up one or two others.

Maybe just me but I find snipe even tougher to shoot than woodcock. Good luck. I'm sure time afield with Gil won't count as wasted, even if the level of success you are after still eludes you.

Stan I am essentially using the same donor Fox with 28� barrels and ejectors for my custom Fox.
I am just starting this project but the choke work is complete. It too will be used primarily for quail. I went with .010 and .015.
I owned a Sterlingworth choked this way years ago and have regretted selling. Worked great for my quail gun here in AZ.

Went out yesterday morning here at the ranch, took a 20 bore O/U choked .002 and .009. Did not use the top barrel but results were perfect on the shots I took.
I shot earlier in the week with a 20 bore Purdey SxS with its original "tight cylinder" and " modified" as specified on the order page , actually .009 and .017.... I have other doubles with similar choking to the Purdey. With the open barrels , results are virtually same regardless of the shell chosen, whether premium target load or promo load.

But,with the tighter choked guns I can vary percentages and spread considerably with shell choice , most notably in the tighter second tubes.

If the dog work is up to par and things go right, the open combo (very similar to Mr. Woods experienced suggestions above), works well with 7/8 oz of 8's most of the time....

Better bird year here on the Southern Rolling Plains than last year's misery. I'm doing an average of 2 coveys an hour with big running dogs , covering LOTS of country.....When conditions and fortune come together I can get 3 coveys an hour in the last two afternoon hours of highest bird activity. A far cry from 2016-17 seasons abundance.......

Thanks, Ghostrider. Having hunted Gambels in your fine state I can see the usefulness of a bit more choke. Those little boogers can get gone before you an bat an eye, and are bad to run on you. I used a 20, with 7/8 oz. 8s on them with IC and M chokes, and did not feel overchoked at all.

Thanks, Paul. As usual, useful first hand information from one who knows. Hope the weather has improved for you since we last "talked".

Good hunting to you both, SRH

Paul, It sounds like you have more birds than most in the Rolling Plains. I know it�s spotty out there this year. Up by Garza County where I am, hunting is poor but the habitat looks great. Hopeful that next year will be better there. Fingers crossed. I just got back from OK panhandle on my buds lease. Mediocre bird numbers there but better than Garza county. I�m glad I don�t have a puppy this year. Where I�ve been it takes good and broke dogs to find birds. A bad year for a pup, for sure.

Eye can't wait to see it.

As old as you are you better get to whittling right away...

Just saying

Buzz, I have friends who lease in Garza and Kent counties and they report much the same as you, great pasture conditions, but few birds....
We are having a wet Fall here, which bodes well for forb/weed/seed production next spring....

Hear you loud and clear on the dogs needed.....I am getting the results I mentioned with 3 VERY experienced canine pals....
I put down a great old country bird dog this summer ....she lived her whole life here, and saw thousands of birds in her career....
When I began to see decent broods here in the early Summer months, I was encouraged enough to think I could possibly take on a replacement derby to keep the string at full strength.....She is coming along, but when you shoot 4-6 birds a day (I continue to shoot one bird per rise again this year), the learning curve is much slower than 15 chances in a couple of hours ....Also fewer bird contacts make it much more difficult to "stage" a perfect shot/training opportunity...i.e. a bird find that lets you get the new dog on in the action, and having an opportunity to pick just the right bird on the rise, right over the trainee, make a clean shot and have her view the whole process.....
Use to come together a lot more often than it does these days...

On a note of encouragement, I have reported to my Biologist friend that of the 54 birds I have harvested here this year I have a juvenile to adult ratio of over 60%.....Indicative of a decent hatch this past year.....Not a huge sample , but we will see how it plays out by season's end....

Same story on our ranch in Crosby county on the South Plains. Great cover, very few birds. I�m not even bothering to hunt it this year so am staying in the panhandle east of Amarillo.

Stan, with woodcock in the mix, I'd say you don't need any choke in the R barrel. Shots can be close, especially when there are still a lot of leaves. I don't think it would be a bad choice for quail either. But based on my experience shooting them in Iowa when we had decent numbers, and in KS (SE part when it was really good for quail) and TX plus one trip to the OK Panhandle, I'd say that your choice of something more like skeet is reasonable. L barrel, maybe light mod. My woodcock gun is cyl
and .010, which is something like skeet 2 in a 20ga.