doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Ideal 28ga frame size

So out of curiosity is there a range for an ideal 28ga frame? Some if not most seem to share a 20ga frame and some 20�s on 12�s. So is there a way to tell?

I think this all depends on one's definition of "Frame Size". To me, the entire frame should be proportioned to the gauge. For instance, I have 12 gauge Lefevers which have three different sizes of standing breeches & firing pin spacings, but all have essentially identical bars & frame bodies. I personally do not call these different Frames. Parker Bros did which is why they listed so many different frame sizes.

I have a little 28 gauge American Gun Co (Crescent) hammer gun which one can see at a glance was built on a frame dedicated to the 28. The bar is quite slim & in proportion to the gauge, weight 5 lbs. A 28 weighing in at 6 lbs or more was likely not built on a truly dedicated frame, other than the size of the breech balls.

Speaking only of over/under guns, Beretta gives the height of their 20 gauge frames as 2 1/8 inches and the �baby� frame as exactly 2 inches. Not a very noticeable difference until one handles them. However, my baby frame 28/410 gun measures 53.7 mm or 2.11 inches tall. Also, the CSMC A-10 small frame guns measure 54.5 mm or 2.15 inches tall for their 20/28 gauge guns.

How did you measure? I have a 28ga and was curious if it was on the correct platform, but haven�t had a 20ga in like forever!

Used a digital caliper accurate to a tenth of a millimeter. These sized frames are very easy and comfortable to use without being too tiny and toy like.

So how did you measure, from the outside or inside?

Outside...from top of frame just behind the barrels to the bottom of the frame.

Awesome!

You should be able to touch your thumb to your middle finger when holding a 28GA at the breech. Verney Carron is coming out with such a frame, designed for 28Ga and 410 and small rifles. Probably will sell for $15K Euros.

That Thumb to middle finger will "VARY" quite a bit dependant on the size of one's hand. I have rather small hands & just took a look at the circle made when I touched my middle finger with my thumb. That would be a small gun indeed.

I have known a few people with hands so large & long fingers who could likely do that on a 12 gauge. An actual circumference in Inches or MMs would be far more meaningful.

It is a very small gun. Weight well under 5 lbs. And it is a double.

I have the same issue as Miller. I tried the thumb/middle finger test on my very petite John Wilkes 28ga (weighs all of 4 3/4 lbs with 28" barrels). They won't reach on that gun, which makes me think I'd have a hard time finding a 28 on which they would reach.

Back in the 1970s I worked with an older gentleman who was a bit over 6' tall & had hands even out of proportion for his height. At lunch time we would get in a quick inning or so of softball. This older man didn't want to run anymore, so he Pitched for both sides.
He could wrap that big ole hand nearly all the way around a softball & let me tell you He Could Pitch. I have little doubt he could have touched his thumb & middle finger on an average 12 gauge double while I couldn't do it on even a small frame 28, so as I said this is all relative to a man's hand. I am about 5' 8" incidentally.

We need someone who has a 28g Ideal to measure the width and length of the barrel flats as well as the depth of the action under the standing breech.

I presume the OP is asking for a generic ideal 28b frame size, and not the size of the Manufrance Ideal model.

If so, I do not know what the preferred 28b frame size is, however for me, for grouse & woodcock, it would be as small as possible, yet strong enough to handle 2 1/2" RST lite loads. If you were shooting clays or ring necks, it would likely be different.

I have a Jeffery BLNE that weighs 4 lbs 5 oz., that frame measures as follows:
Breech width: 1.843"
Bar width @ the angle: 1.340"
Bar length (flat portion): 1.518"
Barrel flat length: 1.910"
Bar depth @ angle: .905"
Firing pin centers: .913"
The 26" barrels weigh 2 lbs 1.5 oz.
2 1/2" chambers, proofed for 5/8 oz.

I also have an A & F Zoli-Rizzini BLNE that weights 4 lbs 14.5 oz., that frame is even smaller, although it is a bit longer.
Breech width: 1.804"
Bar width @ angle: 1.360"
Bar length (flat portion): 1.868"
Barrel flat length: 2.350"
Bar depth @ angle: .830"
Firing pin centers: .860"
Those 26" barrels weigh 2 lbs even.
70 mm, Proof 0.910 KG.

These are both boxlocks, perhaps a trigger plate gun could be made with a smaller frame, although I have not seen one yet.

Has anyone measured a Dickinson 28b or .410?

BTW, I can reach around the breeches of both of these guns with my thumb & forefinger, with about 3/4" to spare, for whatever that is worth...

P.S.

In comparison, my lightest 20b is a Birmingham BLE, 2 1/2" 28" @ 5 lbs 2.2 oz. It measures:
Breech width: 1.994"
Bar width @ angle: 1.423"
Bar length (flat portion) 1.650"
Barrel flat length: 2.100"
Bar depth @ angle: .942"
Firing pin centers: .993"
Barrel weight: 2 lbs 5 oz., proofed for 7/8 oz in 1933.

Although this 20b is wonderfully trim & light, and it is not much larger in most dimensions than my 28 bores, there is a dramatic difference in hand, the 28s feel noticeably smaller and lighter.

I have an American Gun Co (Crescent) 28 gauge hammer double. Weight with 26" barrels is 5 lb. I do not have a 28 gauge chamber gauge but chambers are definitely longer than 2�", I am pretty certain they are 2 7/8". Gun's serial number is 5695, all matching.
Measurements are as follows.

Breech Width = 1.867"
Breech Height = Approx 0.940" ( Barrels do not have flats, Action Bar rounded to match barrel radius)
Firing pin centers = 0.950"
Bar length = 1.633 ( there is a slight step down to knuckle portion just as if it had flats. This does not include knuckle)
Total Bar Length = 1.938".
Width of Bar = 1.260"-1.245" (Tapered).
Width of Bar = 1.190"-1.650" ( Forward Sculpted Section).
Bar Depth = 0.715" (This is the maximum depth of the bar, taken by laying a parallel across the outer edges & then measuring with calipers across the center of the bottom of the bar & subtracting the thickness of the parallel. The bar does not appear to taper in-depth, it is slightly radiused in cross-section, thus slightly deeper in the center).
Circumference over /Breech = 6 1/8". This taken with a cloth measuring tape pulled snug).

Even with my small hand, I can touch my thumb & middle finger but NOT my Fore/Trigger finger & thumb. While a bit heavier than the above two mentioned, I believe this would still qualify as a dedicated 28 gauge frame. This is about the max weight I would want in a 28, any heavier & it would be better as a 20, far more versatile & cheaper to both buy & shoot as well.

Thanks guys! I have this 28ga Silma O/U with the under lugs and wasn�t sure if it was made to gauge or not.