Originally Posted By: L. Brown
Originally Posted By: nca225



Drew. Rights are not given to us by the Creator. There is none. Rights are secured through force and will.

If it were true that rights are secured through a creator, where the hell was he during most of recorded history where the track record is oppression by those in power? God didn't give use any level of freedom. We took it by force, and to say god gave it to us ignores the sacrifices of those who actually fought to secure it.

Case in point:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2019/0...lYBN/story.html

Where is the creator and his endowed rights for these kids?



NCA--It would appear you are in disagreement with Thomas Jefferson and what he stated in the Declaration of Independence:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness."

But Jefferson never said that we were guaranteed to KEEP those rights without help. The quotation in question continues:
"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed." That's the kind of government we have. And if you look through history, men usually lost those rights when the government under which they lived did NOT derive its just powers from the consent of the governed. So although some may look on government as evil, the right kind of government--a democracy--is a very necessary evil.

Of course no government is perfect. I believe it was Churchill who said that democracy is the worst kind of government . . . except for all the others. Sometimes we don't get it right. But at least it's up to US and not some unelected monarch or dictator to straighten things out.


Your right, Larry, I do disagree with Jefferson on that point. Although at that time, I agree that it was a brilliant means to motivate people to their cause. These concepts were pulled strait out of the minds of men. Deemed to be good idea and principles and then fought for. That's all.

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