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Originally Posted By: steve white
*80% of the slave trade went south of what is now the United States. (according to National Geographic) There was even a Papal Bull following a 1452 delivery of slaves to Portugal BLESSING the permeant state of slavery allowed on "black gentiles" by the Portuguese. That is, non-Muslim subsaharan africans. (There were already treaties concerning treatment of Muslims by Christians, but it seems they felt that subsaharan blacks has never been granted such protections, so this was a Papal clarification/doctrine. Does anyone ever accuse the Portuguese or Spanish of their atrocities, or hold civil rights marches anywhere from the Carribean to South America? Of course not. So what is the vindication to vilify America? I am so sick of the liberal tripe--llike that on this thread, that I almost look forward to our coming civil war. You liberal Founding Fathers hating bastards better get ready to duck then!


The reason is rather simple actually. It was to vindicate the Atrocious acts of a president who staged an unconstitutional war which last for around 4 years & cost some 600,00+ (may have been as many as 800,000) Americans their lives. The "Great" Emancipation Proclamation was never for the benefit of the "Slaves" it was a political & military move. It succeeded politically but failed miserably militarily.

By the rude bridge that arched the flood,
Their flag to April's breeze unfurled,
Here once the embattled farmers stood,
And fired the shot heard round the world.
The foe long since in silence slept;
Alike the conqueror silent sleeps;
And Time the ruined bridge has swept
Down the dark stream which seaward creeps.
On this green bank, by this soft stream,
We set to-day a votive stone;
That memory may their deed redeem,
When, like our sires, our sons are gone.
Spirit, that made those heroes dare
To die, and leave their children free,
Bid Time and Nature gently spare
The shaft we raise to them and thee.

Ralph Waldo Emerson, of course, penned this concerning the "Opening Shot" of the Revolutionary War. The British were coming into town to "Take Up" the arms they had. These "Farmers didn't see the need for them to have to come all the way into town for them so they met them outside of town at the Bridge with them.

It is utterly hard to imagine that anyone who understands the history of this era cannot understand the 2nd amendment. "The People" did not mean a standing army, nor did it even refer to the National Guard. It meant exactly who it stated "The People", that's all of US, You & Me.

History only displays the Great Politicians of the era as our "Founding Fathers" but as always the Farmers, Backwoodsmen, Store Keepers &, etc were all a part of our Founding Fathers. I had ancestors there, so did many of you. Why do so many want to Throw Away what they fought for?

Don't take this last statement the wrong way & I have great respect for those who served their Nation in WWII or any other war, But just WHAT makes the WWII Generation any Greater than this Generation that went up against the most powerful Nation on Earth at the time & with about the same odds as a snowball's chance in the Hot Place Formed a nation.


Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
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Disheartening those sentiments for liberty by the masses you mention have now degenerated to predictions of" a coming civil war", miller.

Could the founding fathers been on to something when they saw no need for parties, and governance as beyond skills of commoners?

A benign dictatorship?

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Originally Posted By: King Brown
Disheartening those sentiments for liberty by the masses you mention have now degenerated to predictions of" a coming civil war", miller.

Could the founding fathers been on to something when they saw no need for parties, and governance as beyond skills of commoners?

A benign dictatorship?



The talking mule hath spoken.

Youre an idiot, King, its a wonder that you still know how to breath.

Id like to golf with Ben Franklin, Dolly Madison, and Miranda Lambert.


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Originally Posted By: King Brown
Disheartening those sentiments for liberty by the masses you mention have now degenerated to predictions of" a coming civil war", miller.

Could the founding fathers been on to something when they saw no need for parties, and governance as beyond skills of commoners?

A benign dictatorship?


Talking mule??? You're much too kind lonesome. But the award for this Thread is a three-way split between nca225, rocky mtn bill, and King:



Maybe King could eliminate all competition by telling us which anti-gun Liberal Left Democrat he thinks would make his ideal "benign dictator".

And perhaps King wouldn't be so disheartened by the prospects of a coming civil war if only he viewed potential casualties as very late term abortions. Hell, Democrats could sell the body parts and pay reparations to buy votes:



Voting for anti-gun Democrats is dumber than giving treats to a dog that shits on a Persian Rug

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Perhaps if King would confer with his friends (JFK, MLK, L.Cohen) he would be in a better "position" to do so.


Dumb, but learning...Prof Em, BSc(ME), CAE (FYI)
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Craig, I lived through the Savings and Loan crisis and our late recession. Neither of them did me any great damage, but they did make amply clear that major corporations and the financial industries do not have my interests at heart. It's not some knee jerk reaction. Banks will continue gambling with other people's money if they're allowed to. Steve, perhaps what you consider the vilification of America is instead that we hold our own country to a higher standard than we do those others. If you consider civil rights marches as damaging to America, then you're simply in the wrong country. The Phillipines might suit you better.


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Originally Posted By: rocky mtn bill
Craig, I lived through the Savings and Loan crisis and our late recession. Neither of them did me any great damage, but they did make amply clear that major corporations and the financial industries do not have my interests at heart. It's not some knee jerk reaction. Banks will continue gambling with other people's money if they're allowed to....

And you literally wrote, any of your gang of selfish twenty would be just fine for the country. Maybe, you would be more comfortable with big money corporations if they gave you a free sticker or coffee mug?

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Gee, lonesome, something getting under your skin? No mischief intended on my part, but as student of US history and institutions, I'm hearing here of a coming civil war. Canada needs you whole.Tell your weak neighbour it isn't so.

With checks and balances, what's happened to the people governing? No one talking to each other, ready to take on the US army? Is the loser with a million more votes a problem?' 'Splain, hockey buddy!

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Originally Posted By: King Brown
Gee, lonesome, something getting under your skin? No mischief intended on my part, but as student of US history and institutions, I'm hearing here of a coming civil war. Canada needs you whole.Tell your weak neighbour it isn't so.

With checks and balances, what's happened to the people governing? No one talking to each other, ready to take on the US army? Is the loser with a million more votes a problem?' 'Splain, hockey buddy!



Keep braying, little donkey.

I meant to call you a fookin idiot earlier but was being nice.


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Where do you get the idea that the founding fathers thought governance was beyond commoners? Their concept was of citizen legislators. Serve your term, then go back to a respectable job.


Nothing the government gives you is free.
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