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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 14,016 Likes: 1819
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 14,016 Likes: 1819 |
Have a Lefever C thumb push s/n 93XX from 1885, Mark. It's a 10 gauge 2-barrel set, both heavy. Also has the screw at the same place behind the dolls head.
Keith Kearcher did a butt stock transplant brilliantly and I regularly use the gun for geese. Do not know if Keith's son, now running the business, can do that sort of work.
Regards, Tim I think Kody is Keith's nephew, not his son. SRH
May God bless America and those who defend her.
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,788 Likes: 673
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,788 Likes: 673 |
Exactly right Miller. Both Barber&Lefever and Nichols&Lefever guns used sideplates with the same shape used on this gun. And it is certainly much more likely that Dan Lefever had a frame forging and unfinished sideplates from the later partnership with John Nichols laying around, to utilize for a prototype of a new cocking system.
It's pretty cool that after all this time, there are still things to learn about Lefever guns that even the most advanced collectors haven't seen before. Personally, I'd think about eventually ditching the present buttstock on this gun. Considering the workmanship on the outside, I can't imagine that the inletting is any better. This one is worth trying to make as original as possible, in my opinion.
Voting for anti-gun Democrats is dumber than giving treats to a dog that shits on a Persian Rug
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,071 Likes: 72
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,071 Likes: 72 |
Have a Lefever C thumb push s/n 93XX from 1885, Mark. It's a 10 gauge 2-barrel set, both heavy. Also has the screw at the same place behind the dolls head.
Keith Kearcher did a butt stock transplant brilliantly and I regularly use the gun for geese. Do not know if Keith's son, now running the business, can do that sort of work.
Regards, Tim I think Kody is Keith's nephew, not his son. SRH SRH you are correct, nephew. Kody did a butt stock transplant for me on a gun which came out very well.
Michael Dittamo Topeka, KS
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,893 Likes: 651
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,893 Likes: 651 |
I understood that Nichols took a number of unfinished frames as partial payment when the partnership was dissolved. Always figured Dan was happy to do this, as he was already on to his next design. He might have had a few extra partial finished frames on hand that he used for his experimental designs. He was always trying new things or new features.
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 978 Likes: 51
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 978 Likes: 51 |
Thank you for all the input. I had no idea that this might be such a unique gun. I haven't had time to work on it, having recently moved and just finished building a new studio, so I've been out of the loop for a couple months. I'm tapped out, so will have to move forward slowly. Since this is not the original stock, my intention is to convert to a straight grip, and try to make it look as original as possible. Before I do so, were there straight grips produced in the 6k serial number range? I would assume so, but don't want to assume incorrectly. Thanks.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,329 Likes: 96
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,329 Likes: 96 |
Looking forward to your progress on this fine gun Mark...
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,788 Likes: 673
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,788 Likes: 673 |
I can't recall ever seeing a thumb push opener Lefever with a straight grip stock. I earlier offered the opinion that this gun probably did not originally have a straight grip stock. I based that upon the short tang trigger guard, and the fact that I had never seen a thumb push opener with a straight grip.
I believe all straight grip Lefevers had a different trigger guard with a very long straight tang. Earlier full pistol grip stock guns had a trigger guard with a tang that had a square end which ran all the way to the grip cap. If this is the original trigger guard, I'd think it was for a 1/2 pistol grip stock. However, the usual serial number engraved into the tang is not visible. It may not be original, or it may have been filed off, since it seems rough in that area.
I don't have reprints of all the catalogs, but the earlier ones seem to mainly describe guns as having full pistol grips with grip caps. Nichols & Lefever price lists offered mostly capped full pistol grip, with some 1/2 grip. Straight grips were not offered. We don't see straight grip stocks offered as an option in catalogs until much later. Of course, Dan Lefever would give the customer what they wanted within reason, so there may well be an original straight grip thumb push opener gun out there. Robert Elliot's books show pictures of some earlier Barber and Lefever hammer guns with the thump push opener system that have uncapped 1/2 pistol grip stocks. Unfortunately, most of the photos of thumb push guns do not show the grip area.
When it isn't possible to maintain 100% originality, I think it is never a mistake to at least try to maintain the original configuration. Since you will be taking your time before beginning to restock this, it would probably be best to do more research and spend time watching auctions of thumb push Lefever and Nichols & Lefever guns to see which grip style was predominately made and sold.
Voting for anti-gun Democrats is dumber than giving treats to a dog that shits on a Persian Rug
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,136 Likes: 125
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,136 Likes: 125 |
nice to see the lucid, knowledgeable keith posting here...
instead of dat wack job keet...
keep it simple and keep it safe...
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 978 Likes: 51
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 978 Likes: 51 |
Thank you for the input Keith regarding straight grips. The trigger guard may be original, but it is rough, so I have my doubts about that too. I just removed the hammers and was able to disassemble the gun, and everything looks fine. The wood is solid with no cracks. All my guns have straight grips, so I guess I have to decide if it's worth going to all this effort to end up with a gun that isn't my preference, or do I throw originality out the window and make it how I would want it. I have to think that Uncle Dan might not have a problem with that were he here. Will have to chew on that a bit...
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 978 Likes: 51
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 978 Likes: 51 |
Finally had some time to work on this gun. The decision whether or not to convert to straight grip was made for me, as the original pistol grip was botched pretty bad, and was at least 1/8" too narrow on each side of the grip to fit a grip cap correctly, and I didn't want to half ass it, so I went with the straight grip. After re-shaping the wood around the lock plates, I love the elegant lines and overall sleekness of it. Here's a pic of it in progress, and with the ebony tip replaced on the forend. The stock will have to be darkened a bit to match the original black walnut forend. 
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