doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Spanish Shotgun Makers- Pros and Cons

Wish I still had my copy of Terry Weiland's book "Spanish Best"-- but as I do not have access to his data, I'll ask, in general terms- and perhaps more specific later, after I have the gun in ? in my hands and on my bench-

20 gauge Spanish made side-by-side- double triggers ( not sure if it is a sidelock or a box lock, nor if it has ejectors- The name of the town- gunmaking center I believe it EIBAR-- t currently belongs to a friend-- retired automotive engineer- loves older Buick and Ford cars- but not really a shotgunning gent- Not sure what he wants to do with it- we shall see.

My main concern is the old Jack O'Conner stories in his "Shotgun Book" about the metallurgy- believe this was imported by Richland Arms - so I doubt it is an AYA-but will post more details and fotos later, if my "Bama friend Raimey E. will assist me in getting that detail underway-right now, just asking for tips on what to look for on such a shotgun- RWTF/ Ambien con El Zorro!!

For starters, are you sure it's Spanish? Richland did import Spanish sxs, but they also imported Italian sxs made by Prandelli-Gasperini, which were pretty good guns.

Good ? Oh mighty King- Eibar- believe that is in Spain, not Italy- Looks like a Richfield Arms- Blissfield MI 1960's import--but that's just a SWAG-- El Zorro

Any of these maker marks on the shotgun?

http://www.shotguns.se/html/spanish_trademarks.html

And here is the proof code

http://www.shotguns.se/html/spain.html

The Spanish doubles from the 60�s and 70�s got a bad reputation for soft steels on internal parts. But it was very hit or miss as to which ones were good and which ones were soft as butter. Many Spanish guns were fine, but they all got tainted with a bad reputation.

Had a friend buy a 20 �POS� that he reworked into a double rifle. He was a great home shop gunsmith. Smoothed and hardened the internals, bushed the firing pins, sleeved the barrels with two .444 barrels from Marlin. First two shots were 1/2� apart at 50 yards. At 100 they were 1/2� apart but had switched sides. Since he was using it for a wild hog stopper it was a perfect setup. Lords knows how many hogs he killed with it. He�s gone now and nobody knows where that double rifle ended up.

Yes, Eibar was/is in Spain. Richland Arms imported a line of Spanish made shotguns. The lower priced ones were boxlock & as I recall were ina 200 series. I once had an Italian 20 gauge 3" magnum imported by Richland Arms which was a model 707. For a rather inexpensive shotgun, it was pretty well made & never gave any trouble.

I've had a few Spanish doubles over the years and never had an issue with the "dreaded" soft metal.

Foxy, I don't imagine that your friend remembers Harley Earle, the greatest Buick designer ever. I have some guns from the collection of Lester Ruwe, who lived in Harley Earle's house in Grosse Point Shores. Ruwe, like Harley Earle, was a multi millionaire or more. Ruwe was the Ambassador to Iceland and owned a very large Ontario hunting preserve.

Italian guns can have issues with soft internals, too. I have an Italian hammergun built in 1973 that had a soft sear in the left lock. Jim Kelley properly hardened it for me last year.

When it comes to Spanish guns the "dreaded" soft material is no more of a concern to me than the dreaded engraving, on all but the highest end guns. Yuchhh!

SRH

After reading much of Jack O'Connor's writings about his wonderful Eusebio Arizaga 28-gauge, my buddy and I pooled our $s and ordered five Holland & Holland pattern sidelock 20-gauges with straight grip stocks and beavertail forearms, each with a different receiver and lockplate finish. I kept the black finished gun and Wayne kept the coin finished one and we sold the other three to cover our expenses. Problems started almost immediately, broken tumblers, soft sears bending, etc. Wayne's was gone before he left for Viet Nam. Mine shot very well, when it worked, eleven Roosters in fourteen shots during the 1967 season. After its second right tumbler replacement, it flowed down the river of commerce.

Have never seen the need to own another Spanish gun. The Eusebio Arizaga 28-gauge wasn't there when I visited the Jack O'Connor Hunting Heritage & Education Center in Hells Gate State Park in Lewiston, ID.

I am sure he does- he is a Buick collector par excellence. As for the mansion in the Grosse Pointes (there are five, and my wife Mae grew up in Grosse Pointe Woods- FWIW-- Her younger brother had a paper route (Detroit News- major competitor to the Detroit Free Press-back in the day) and his route encompassed Mrs. Edsal Ford's huge estate- every year at Xmas- all the delivery folks, including the paper boy, received from the guard at the gate an envelope with a card, a note and a crisp $100 bill- not too shabby indeed.

I have no idea when and where he obtained this Richland Arms 20 bore- will look at it whenever he decides he is ready for that next step- he just mentioned it to me this AM at our downtown Wed. morning coffee get-togethers at Margo's restaurant. Most of the fellows talk golf- he and I are not golfers, but he has a solid mechanical engineering background, and loves to talk about cars- He subscribes to Hemmings managzine, as I do to Shooting Sportsman.

I doubt if I will buy this Spanish mfg. 20 bore- I have a Fox Sterly 20 bore- 28" DT, EJ I bought about 10 years ago, hoping for a legal dove season here- didn't happen- so I need another 20 bore side-by-side like I need a third ear-- RWTF

Since you mentioned "Cactus Jack" O'Conner- you might get a kick out of a story about the old AZ curmudgeon-- Outdoor writer John Madson and his 13 year old son were invited guests of Jack and Eleanor O'Connor at their AZ hacienda. Jack delighted in giving them the grand tour- all the fine guns, trophies, photo albums- the "whole nine yards"-- After that, Jack O'Connor turned to John's teenage son and asked him-- "Well Scott- what do you think of all this?" Scott Madson's terse reply was as follows: "Well, Sir, you don't do very much fishing, do you"--

I once read that the O'Connors oldest son, Bradford- did himself in- damn shame-if that is the case--RWTF

Some are good, some are bad all are hard to sell at a good price.
bill

low priced hunting guns generally do not have issues...

problems occur when shooters try to use them as high priced target guns...

YES! I am biased, the Great War, the British Government and the Spanish lower value end gun makers all had a hand in decimating the British gun trade in all its forms. Making it a shadow of its former self that we see today!

Yes Foxy . . . Eibar is in Spain. But look again and I'm sure you'll find that the importer is Richland, not Richfield.

Right you are- I added Blissfield, MI into the mixture-- Richland Arms-- The Stoegers of lower SE Mich back in the 1960's- perhaps. O, come se dice en Espano, "Quizas" por que no, amigo mio de el Estado Iowa>>>!!El Zorro

From all the posts I've read here about Spanish guns built in the last couple decades, I'd conclude the major makers do a pretty good job. But, I also think it would be a large and unnecessary expense to buy a new one unless your specs were unique.They sell at auction for a fraction of original cost and there are quite a few of them available. I just saw an Arrizabalaga SLE go for $1200.

That's been my experience, ed. Never a problem. My old ones weren't made to fire hundreds of rounds a week. I don't.

Given the significant price increases in Spanish guns, there's little question that it's a really good idea to look used. Definitely some real bargains compared to new prices.

OK- gun is "In Hand" and timely, as I am going with son-in-law to a gun show tomorrow Sat 22/June) in Grand Rapids, MI-- it is a 20- 28" barrels, 3" chambers, rile cut rib, DT, EXT, PG, beavertail forearm- red vented recoil pad- good dims-- 95% ANIB- my friend bought it years ago, never shot it-- So, we shall see. My Blue Book Anniv. issue shows about $300-$330 top dollar for this "escopeta hechan en Eibar--El Zorro!!

foxie: to quote schultz "Some are good, some are bad all are hard to sell at a good price."

figure at ah gun show, you might git an offer of $150, if you dress like ah bum an act needy...

Not gonna happen, Eddie-- "Clothes makes the man"-- and "Dressed up like a million dollar trooper, trying hard to look like Gary Cooper- Super Duper""-- Acting "Needy"- sounds to me like the door-to-door salesman saying to the Lady of the house- "You don't want to buy a vacuum cleaner today, do you, M'am?" Always sell from the positive, and going out in a public venue w/o the daily 4 S's- (Shave, shower, shampoo and Shinola) -- your "Charlie Chaplin" approach might work for you, but that's not my style. But thanks for the thought anyway- RWTF PS- sold it today (Sunday) for $250 CIF- and I "dressed sharp"--as always-- Foxie