doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com The Finest American Side-by-Side Ever?

I keep reading that the Colt 1883 is "quite possibly" the finest classic American side-by-side shotgun ever made. I've owned one, and it was certainly a nice boxlock, but to my eye, no nicer than others I've known. I believe they were considered expensive, relative to others available, but what real justification is there for this claim? And for that matter, is the Colt really an "American" shotgun? Isn't there at least speculation that they were built in Birmingham and just finished in the States? (I assume the barrels were Belgian, but almost everybody's were, right?) TT

The early Remington hammerless 1894 guns would be my choice.
Thru all the grades, with the EE being the best of 'em all.
Suitable for industrialists and clodhopper!

TT:
That story should be placed with the H&R box lock and Westley Richards.
Not the Colt.
It may be that the Colt and the H&R are close quality and build, I sincerely think the honor goes to the H&R as the "best".
Lowell, Perhaps the Remington side hammer lightweight could be thought of as the "best" of its time. It is a superb gun and if one can find one in fine condition, it is a treasure.
Best,
John

1897 Chas. Godfrey, N.Y. catalog



1898:
LC Smith Pigeon - $150
LC Smith 3E - $125
LC Smith 1E - $75
Parker DHE - $100

I am also of the opinion that Colt's S x S offerings were Birmingham made. I think the finest American S x S's ever would be one of those wonderful high grade guns by Uncle Dan.

Would you have any reference that shows they were not made in the USA?

William Mason, a Colt employee patented the 1883 Colt shotgun.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=erRoAAAAEBAJ&dq=WILLIAM+MASON+aug+22

http://www.google.com/patents?id=bC9kAAAAEBAJ&dq=WILLIAM+MASON+1882

http://www.google.com/patents?id=rMFYAAAAEBAJ&pg=PP1&dq=WILLIAM+MASON+1882

http://www.google.com/patents?id=-09rAAAAEBAJ&dq=WILLIAM+MASON+1882

I haven't examined one in years but,from what I can remember, the Colt 1883s action was quite different from any Birmingham gun I've ever seen. Rugged and simple are two terms that come to mind. Can anyone else comment on this?
Jim

We can document that the barrels came from Belgium.
Why would you think the guns were made in Birmgingham? What indicates an English maker?

Pete

Guys, I am not a researcher, and I am not a writer. I am a reader, and I have a good bit of reading materials on guns. Just now, I can't make my old gray matter spit out where I read this, but I will dig through my books and post what I can find. I do remember this information is not from a relatively current period, it's fairly old, and honestly, I am surprised someone else might not also have a source. I'll post what I can find. I still think it's tough to beat Uncle Dan, though.

Guys: Like Chief, I know I didn't dream up the speculation about a British connection. I too read it somewhere (some source I would have trusted as reliable) and, frankly, had assumed it was a known fact and generally accepted among experts. I have a vague recollection that the story went something like this ... Colt, as one of the most famous firearms makers in the world, had a strong desire to go to market quickly (a pet project of a member of the Colt family?) with a fine hammerless shotgun, and turned to Birmingham to make it happen. Engraving, stocking, and maybe even fitting happened stateside, but the actions were built in Birmingham and the barrels in Liege or somewhere. Many assumed the guns were made entirely in Hartford, and Colt made no attempt to set the record straight. Didn't Winchester also briefly wade into the fine doubles market, and do so by outsourcing to England? I know some here can shed more light on the matter, they just haven't come along yet. What do we know about Colt's hammerguns -- where were they built and how many similarities are there? Michael, what do we know about William Mason? Perhaps this damning accusation can be soundly refuted.