Many thanks Toby and Miller. Returning to "not for ball," as you all know a date chart for Reilly serial numbers has been constructed.
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=436538&page=20To be as precise as possible by using certain proof marks as "date markers," I'd really like to know when exactly "not for ball" was added to London proofs, because if it were early or late 1875 it could effect that chart by as much as 400 serial numbers. And the same for the removal of the proof.
I'll give an example of a gun which is using "not for ball" to help date it: The chart dates Reilly SN 19286 as being numbered in early 1875. On a knowledgeable UK board the following comment was made (at the time the UK board was still struggling with the wide-spread misperception that Reilly had closed rue Scribe in 1872 (Brown Vol I & III):
. . . . . . ."Your gun was a nominal 10 bore but actually measured 11 bore. Lovely damascus barrels bearing the crown over V London View Mark (1637-1954) for preliminary inspection, the crown over bar over GP Provisional Proof Mark (1813-date) to reveal faults before any expensive work was done on the barrels, and the crown over GP London Definitive Proof Mark (1637 to date), all these adding up to Black Powder Proof. The barrel flats have two of these original marks as expected.
. . . . . . ."The action flats have the expected View mark, and they have the H Walker patent mark for his barrel bolting and safety for drop-down actions patent No 455 of 12 February 1872 ( Use No. 1098 ) .
. . . . . . ."Of equal importance to the marks are the ones that don't appear e.g. no NOT FOR BALL or CHOKE mark (so see what patterns it throws with various cartridges). The first of these was introduced in 1875, so this and the patent date mean the gun was made definitely not before Feb 72, or after 1875.
. . . . . . ."It must have been made a couple of years after 1872, say 1874 to early 1875, and we favour the latter because even if the gun was made by a large trade maker, the 1098 use number is quite a large number."
https://www.internetgunclub.com/archived-forum/posts.php?topicid=1344If "Not for Ball" were added in November 1875 rather than May 1875...that's a difference of some 300 odd Reilly serial numbers.
Admittedly that's a little anal but we ran across this in dating early French 20th century shotguns as well. In 1912 the chambering measurements changed from cm to mm in Saint Etienne... but what month? We've got Didier Drevet barrels dated 1912 with both cm and mm, so the month the regulation changed could help date other French shotguns with similar mm/cm changes. It's historically interesting.
And I'm very curious about when choke boring was invented and how common it was at what time. I've got William Pape taking a patent out on choke tubes in 1866 (British Patent No. 1501)? Any idea how fast that idea caught on?
