doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com A test of your English gun knowledge

"IF" the temperature does not exceed the critical temp, which varies a bit according to the amount of carbon in the steel it does not Harden, Period. In fact, it will draw/temper the hardness which was put in when the gun was built. An action can be "Colored" below that temp, but you w2ill lose the case hardness & only gain the color. Case Hardening, technically known as Carburizing does indeed harden the surface, "The Case". It does take the sudden cooling to affect the hardening process. When the critical temp is reached the molecules in the steel are re-arranged & the part also becomes Non-Magnetic. The Quench "Locks" the molecules in their new position, if it colled slowly they would go back to their original position & you would have Annealed the part.

If you get the part hot enough to color but below that critical temp, then the hardness is as I said tempered out & you have lost that hard case which was present. As I said I was not a heat-treater, but have seen it done in the machine shops I worked in, though in these cases it was done for the effect, not for color. Parts normally came out a grey. They were "Always" quenched in either oil or water. Some form of animal charcoal is used in color hardening, to obtain better colors.

I will agree it is not a Backyard project. If one insists on having it done send it to someone who is very well versed in the operation, & also do not allow it to be simply re-colored without re-hardening. Me, I will live without the color rather than risk damaging a gun that has not been made for many, many years. The original makers likely allowed for some number of failures.

In my 35+ years in machine shops I never saw a part go through heat-treating of any sort, either through or Case hardening which "Did Not Move" by some amount from the configuration which it had prior to being treated.
Take it for whatever its worth to you or totally ignore it. It's your gun, not mine that'll be exposed.

Tell us what I'm ignorant about Mr. Shittle'bean.

Tell us what I'm ignorant about Mr. Shittle'bean.



Screw grip guns-remember when you were arguing with an actual English gunmaker about that? Color case hardening, and how it happens. Water is a big part of the process. I�m also going to add anything to do with metal forging, since you believe guns are made in �molds�.
Hilarious.
And, sad.

Best,

Ted

And you don't think vintage receivers were cast ?

I think the Savage you were trying to chisel a few bucks off of the price to buy for Grandsonny in the �for sale� section, right before the lister told you to sick it, might have been.

Did you call Purdey or Boss and ask? Or, don�t they answer the phone anymore when Frank Cox shows up on the caller ID?

Hey, EVERY Darne receiver is a forging.

Best,
Ted

Most all vintage English built hammer guns, if you look closely, you can see the forging lines, looks like layers of sediment, usually wavy, almost like a type of Damascus....joE, those are indeed forgings. About the only parts on an English gun that would�ve been cast were bits like top levers, hammers, trigger guard tangs, forend escutcheons, etc.

I was told years ago that there is a risk of warping the action when a gun is recas� colored. Makes wonder about all the �restorations� being done. The case coloring looks great but was the steel rehardend?

In a restoration where a quality case coloring is done, the steel is definitely hardened, but only on the surface. Actions are very rarely warped by a competent case colorer.

They can be over hardened as was a Marlin 1895 I was restoring a couple years ago. It was a well known outfit in Illinois. Fortunately, there are many other colorers with much better quality control.

Probably the best discussion of the process can be read at http://marlin-collectors.com/forum/viewt...e8d23ba982a7747

I don't have any of my guns rehardened for color. Barrels blacked, checkering recut and wood refinished yes. Trigger guards and bits reblued by charcoal blueing or nitre blueing, but no re-casehardening for me. And I think the guns look just fine that way.

I am in total agreement with that Hammergun. Let no one fool you, Any time a piece of steel passes through that "Critical" temperature with one being Sudden, there "IS" a possibility of warpage.
As I stated earlier with over 35 years in machine shops where I saw heat-treating done on a near daily basis, I do not recall Ever seeing a part come out with absolutely No Movement what-so-ever. This includes through hardening by air, oil or water quench depending upon the exact alloy, as well as Precipation hardening & some case hardening, though we did not do a lot of that.
With a new gun, the maker takes the risk that all will not go as planned, on an old gun the owner takes the risk, I simply choose not to take that risk on a gun of mine.