doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com A test of your English gun knowledge

As to Common Wealth, I have bough a double there that turned out to be exactly as pictured and described. I've been very happy with it. Their "return" policy is pure B.S. My only negative with them is I emailed them multiple times to go see a gun they had listed while I was in VA and they took forever to get back with me. It was the week before Christmas, so that may well have played a part in that

My apologies for leading any of you astray when I stated that the subject Holland hammergun was out of proof as its action was not reproofed after re-case hardening.

I have since learned from one of my gunmaker friends in Birmingham, UK that re-proofing is not required by UK proof houses on re-case hardened actions.

This fact is counter intuitive to reasonable thought to my mind as a re-case hardened action is brought up to a temperature of nearly 1500F degrees and then stressed severely by being submersed in cold water.

I stand corrected and gobsmacked.

A distinguished gunsmith from one of UK's big houses suggested to me during a restoration he wouldn't advise case-hardening for that reason.

I don't understand that reasoning, bushveld. If it was casehardened in that exact same way when built new, why would it be any more unsafe when done so again? Before it is (re)casehardened it is annealed, which supposedly relieves it of all internal stresses, basically putting it back in the same state it was in before being casehardened the first time. Unless there's something I'm misunderstanding about it?

Maybe that is the reason the proof house has the stance it does concerning it.

SRH

ThAt's new one on me.

Any time a piece of steel is heat-treated, either case hardened or through hardened it does indeed go through heating to above its critical temperature & then a sudden Quench in some form. In case hardening this quenching medium is normally oil or water, depending upon the exact composition of the base metal.

There are what is known as Air-Hardening steels & also Precipitation Hardening steels, particularly in the stainless line. Neither of these latter are used much in gun-making.

While I was NOT a heat-treater nor an Engineer, I have seen many parts go through heat treatment. Personally, I would never subject an older gun of mine to be Re-Case Hardened. The original hard case is still there, all you gain is cosmetics.

You gain cosmetics at a considerable expense & run the risk of warpage or even a cracked frame. In many cases, we do not even know for certain what the exact alloy of the frame is. Sure we know it is a comparatively mild steel, but even then differing amounts of carbon content & other trace elements can affect the outcome.

I am absolutely amazed that British proof law would not demand re-proof after a re-hardening.

Unless you are Ed the torch the temp is not that high when recoloring/re-case hardening an action kind of a slow bake in bone meal charcoal....it's not a task for the back yard tinker'r for sure.

In all I've ever read or saw on vintage gun making I don't recall anyone dunking an action in a bucket of oil or water to harden it.

The actions were cast in molds...I thought shotgun action hardening was more just a surface hardening to prevent wear and still allow the action to have some flex and the color was just a by product of the process.

You saw it right here, folks.

Complete ignorance.


Best,
Ted

No, the grammar was sorta OK.........

Should be unfathomable, but given that it is the homeless idiot, not so much.