doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Savage Fox Sterlys

One never knows what these guns are subjected to in their lives. I have a 20 Gauge Savage Sterly factory chambered in 2 3/4" and had to have it put back on face by Dan Rossiter. Don't know what loads it was subjected to in its life but they must have been pretty hot. I had it restocked as well, so it will now outlast me for sure.

It may well have been off face from many opening & closings with a dry hinge joint. I would think it would take some mighty powerful loads in a 20 gauge to put a Sterly off face.

No idea. I will say that the action flexed big time before Dan put it back on face. Is a Sterlingworth 20 gauge ejector, so it was worth the effort and is now my meat gun.

"IF" that rotary bolt was properly fitted there should be little to No action flex.

In addition to "regular" Fox-Sterlingworths there are Savage-era guns built using up excess flat-sided frame forgings made for the SP-/SPE-Grade guns --

http://forum.foxcollectors.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5786

and also 12-gauge guns made on the drawbolt frame.

That may be but the rotation arc is quite short and hinge joint pressure when opening and closing is low even when compressing ejector springs on a Sterlingworth that has them. Motor engine parts survive millions of high speed cycles with lubrication. Why would off face come from several thousand or less of turtle speed hinge joint movements without some thing else at play? As we say, food for thought.

Re chamber length, pressure, etc:

I saved a copy of a post from this BB going back to 1998. In that post, the author quoted from an article by LTC Calvin Goddard in the May-June 1934 issue of "Army Ordnance". Goddard was quoting from the SAAMI proof tables then in use. Per those tables, there were different proof and service pressure standards for 2 5/8" 12ga vs 2 3/4" 12ga. Mean service working limit for the short shells: 9,500 psi. For 2 3/4" shells: 10,500 psi.

We know from the tests on which Sherman Bell reported in Double Gun Journal that there is a pressure increase when firing 2 3/4" shells in a 2 1/2" chamber vs 2 3/4" chamber. (Average increase of 738 psi, maximum of 1216 psi, from the data he reported.) While there may well be less than that for a gun with 2 5/8" chambers vs 2 3/4", the nominal chamber for the short 20's was 2 1/2", and 2 9/16" for the 16's--where it may be more of an issue. But you're already starting "in the hole" simply because your 2 3/4" shell has a higher SAAMI service pressure than the shorter shells. To which you then must add whatever increase is due to longer shell/shorter chamber. Looks to me like it could be substantial, especially in 20's--and more of an issue in 16's than 12's.

Researcher, I thought the Flat sided SPE's where a product of Savage saving production costs. How many "left over" receivers where there?

The SP-/SPE-Grade was introduced by Savage in their June 12, 1932, Fox wholesale and retail price lists. This magazine ad was a bit optimistic as to price, --



as the price with the non-selective single trigger on the June 12, 1932, price lists was $54.

Early on the SP-/SPE-Grades were perfectly plain and a bit cheaper than the A-/AE-Grades but by the March 1, 1934, price lists they were the same price. Also, in the March 1, 1934, wholesale price list they added a skeet model --



About this time the SP-/SPE-Grades got a bit of line border engraving and some stippling on the top of the breech. For 1935, a fancier skeet gun, the SP-/SPE-Grade Skeet & Upland Game Gun with quite a bit of coarse scroll engraving was introduced --



The SP-/SPE-Grade Skeet & Upland Game Gun remained through Savage's 1939 Fox catalog.

All of the SP-framed Fox-Sterlingworths I know of that have been lettered show ship dates of May 1939 and later.

Did the frame Stretch, or did the hinge pin bend or the steel in the barrel lump compress? Was the rotary bolt Not Fitted so as to help carry the load. How much difference is there in the strength of a 20 ga Fox frame & a 12 Ga one?
All of these factors have to be considered to say it was from Shooting the gun.

In the automobile engine, the parts as stated are constantly Lubricated. Leave the oil out of one & see how far it goes before a total lockup.

I did not positively state this was the cause anyway, only offered it as a "Possibility". You can think that frictional wear is an impossibility in the hinge joint of a double if you choose to, but I seriously doubt you can prove your case.