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Forums10
Topics40,330
Posts574,060
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Most Online32,084
Jun 14th, 2026
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 543 Likes: 21
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 543 Likes: 21 |
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,726 Likes: 129
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,726 Likes: 129 |
Damascus pattern may be American Flag Bunting. Experts will say for sure.
I've always thought the Grade 4E Ithacas were among the most attractive...Geo
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 512 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 512 Likes: 1 |
Parkers could be ordered with no safeties as well and for any reason. Seems logical in a live pigeon gun.
i was once related a tale from a late friend whose wife inherited a 20 gauge Parker from her Grandmother. Her Grandfather claimed He ordered it with no safety so that she would not become dependant on it and would be more likely to practice deliberate gun safety.
Last edited by Alder adder; 09/10/18 04:11 PM.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 10,041 Likes: 646
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 10,041 Likes: 646 |
George has it, but Ithaca called it just "American Flag" Bro. Walt's 4E Crass  1917 Flues 
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 10,041 Likes: 646
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 10,041 Likes: 646 |
Just for interest, this is a Parker. Remington called the pattern "Washington N 3 B.P.". Within the scrolls are tiny rectangles; not crosses or stars  This Remington called "Etoile 3 B.P." and it has tiny stars within the scrolls, obviously similar but finer than "American Flag"  Steve Culver has the lopin figured out - stay tuned 
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,045 Likes: 139
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,045 Likes: 139 |
Nice, old fashioned engraving on your gun. Pretty neat imho.
Socialism is almost the worst.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,403 Likes: 17
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,403 Likes: 17 |
I have owned a few with no safety. One I remember had the safety slot filled but one could still see the old outline. Most likely live pigeon or trap. All the Ithaca single barrel trap guns (maybe a few exceptions) did not have a safety.
A very nice early gun. Congratulations!
I re-looked at your very nice photos and see were the slot ws also filled--and then engraved-all factory I am certain.
Last edited by Walter C. Snyder; 09/10/18 05:09 PM.
Walter c. Snyder
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 10,041 Likes: 646
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 10,041 Likes: 646 |
Sporting Life reported the gun and load used by competitors at all the GAH at Live Birds. The first Ithaca used was at the 1901 GAH, by H. Hughes of Easton, PA.
Unfortunately, guns and loads were not reported in detail thereafter.
If Bro. Walt or Cody has record of the gun's original purchaser I'll see if I can find him
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,403 Likes: 17
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,403 Likes: 17 |
Cody now has the records. They are in the process of scanning them as I post. They will soon be in the position to do a letter on your gun. Maybe contact them now as I gave them micro film of the records and, if you sweeten the request, they MAY respond. I would expect a name to be associated with the gun.
ps a 1904 gun probably engraved by Ed Laytham.
Last edited by Walter C. Snyder; 09/10/18 05:17 PM.
Walter c. Snyder
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,980 Likes: 175
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,980 Likes: 175 |
Ithaca doubles certainly were not popular among Pigeon shooters. They very rarely appear in the listings of guns used at the Grand American Handicap at live birds 1893 to 1902. The boys and girls at Fall Creek certainly remedied that at clay targets with their Knick SBT!! Actually after Ithaca abandoned the double gun field this guy won the World Shoot at Madrid, Spain --   with an NID. Doc. Drew -- the first picture you show calling them a Remington Model of 1894 Hammerless C grade with "Washington N 3 B.P.". Within the scrolls are tiny rectangles; not crosses or stars appears to actually be a set of Parker Bros. barrels
Last edited by Researcher; 09/10/18 05:36 PM.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 543 Likes: 21
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 543 Likes: 21 |
I once had an LC Smith grade 3 live bird gun, and sold it. Now I currently am caretaker of an 1894 Rem. CEO live bird gun and now this Ithaca 4E.
Mr. Snyder thanks for posting what you know about the gun. I read your book, 2nd edition, when I got it 4 mos. ago, and then I re-read it in anticipation of this gun.
The last cody letter I sent off for was on a Winchester, and all I got back was caliber, bbl length, start date and finish date.Bummer for what the letter cost, as I'm not a member. I hope when I send off for this Ithaca there will be a few more details.
Thanks again.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 10,041 Likes: 646
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 10,041 Likes: 646 |
Good eye and thanks Dave. It's one of the "Gold Towel Guy's" and I corrected the caption here and on the PictureTrail.
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 12,743 |
Years ago I saw an EE grade Lefever with no safety. Unfortunately someone had refinished the stock & had sanded it heavily off the gun. All corners were badly rounded till they no longer fit & it had then been filled with plastic wood or such. Made on just want to Cry to look upon it. Was a fairly late large hook gun & as I recall had Krupp barrels, I know they were steel & not Damascus. Gn was priced as if it were :Mint" so I passed.
Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 543 Likes: 21
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2006
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Hello all. I just got off the phone with Jessi, a nice lady at the Cody Firearms Museum. She said the Ithaca records won't be ready for a few months, and about a year before 'letterhead?' for Ithaca guns was ready.
Anyway she did confirm 112225's basic configuration, Damascus, 30", 12ga, 4E. A date 6-1905 and a name - A. Gardirrer.
That name was the best she could make out with the writing and all.
Is that name close to a shooter in the day?
Last edited by RedofTx; 09/11/18 03:52 PM.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 543 Likes: 21
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 543 Likes: 21 |
I did google A. Gardirrer as she gave it to me and all I came up with was this : Search All Augusta, Maine Newspaper Archives __.------ Allegheny County Club and George 3. will furnish valuable pointers tb Cor- liydfi of thelLambdlon County Club, T> reapondence school students. They are rpnto. Canada, are the survivors out Just a hippy family working Harmoni- ously and together.. Were one name' the "beat" player on the team he would al fie d of over 130 players who took part in year's National Amateur KO d c mVapionshJp tournament. These tiro Aug. Augusta. Aug. Watervllle and Fair- Oeld. Aug. Gardiner. Aug. Gardiner. Aug. Augusta. Aug. Watervllle and Fftlr- fleld. i Aug. Gardiner. Aug. Augusta. Sept. Gardiner. Sept. day, afternoon. 4 P. 1C.. Augusta. AT WATERVILLB. July It-Saturday, HalloweU. July Gardiner. July I Augusta. July Hallowell. JUty Uardiner. Aug. Augusta. Aug. Gardiner. Aug. Augusta. Aur. Hallowell. Aug. Augusta. AUK. Gardiner. Aug. Hallbwell. Aug. Gardirrer. Hallowell. Sept. Augusta. Sept. a-Labor day, 1 P, M.. Hallowell AT GARDINER. July IS-Wednesday, Hallowell. July Augusta. July Watervllle and Fair- https://newspaperarchive.com/daily-kennebec-journal-jul-14-1906-p-4/
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 10,041 Likes: 646
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 10,041 Likes: 646 |
April 4, 1903 http://library.la84.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1903/VOL_41_NO_03/SL4103011.pdfBrenham, Texas, March 27. Editor "Sporting Life" The twenty-ninth annual tournament of the Texas State Sportsmen's Association, March 23 to 27, inclusive, closed in a rain Thursday evening, the first three and a half days being very pretty weather, barring the high wind that ruined the scores at live birds on the first day. The shoot was under the management of Mr. Alf. Gardiner, proprietor of the Sunny South Shooting Park...There is a picture in the 2nd column 1905. The Sunny South Handicap was a major shoot http://library.la84.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1905/VOL_44_NO_19/SL4419014.pdf "Alf Gardiner was the originator of the event" http://library.la84.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1915/VOL_64_NO_23/SL6423019.pdf Lots of hits on Alf here - you'll need to cut and paste http://search.la84foundation.org/search?q=alf+gardiner&Author=&Keywords=&btnG=Search+LA84&entqr=0&proxycustom=&getfields=*&output=xml_no_dtd&sort=date%3AD%3AL%3Ad1&client=default_frontend&filter=0&ud=1&oe=UTF-8&ie=UTF-8&proxystylesheet=default_frontend&partialfields=&proxyreload=1 The January 28, 1912 "Houston Post" has a report on the Sunny South Handicap and possibly a pic of Alf. Now we know how the gun made it to TX  Very cool Red! Could the dimensions fit a lady? http://library.la84.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1906/VOL_47_NO_14/SL4714022.pdfMrs. Alf. Gardiner and Mrs.Atchison took part in a recent tournament at Brenham, Texas, and made some very creditable scores.
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,090 Likes: 83
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,090 Likes: 83 |
Is that a Prairie Chicken?
Michael Dittamo
Topeka, KS
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,980 Likes: 175
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,980 Likes: 175 |
Looks like a fine American folk art representation of a Prairie Chicken on that trigger guard to me.
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