doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com How are grouse populations in your area?

Gentlemen,

I did not mean to turn this thread into a Gun Rights issue for sure. Being this is a double gun forum I took it that all members agreed that owning a good bird Gun was just a fact of life.

However let me advise all members of just where I stand. I am one of the original members of Charlton Heston's NRA Speakers Bureau, a life member of the NRA and still speak from time to time. I took an oath to protect the US Constitution from enemies foreign and domestic, and enforce the UCMJ as a US Army CID Special Agent. I like civil knowledgable conversations with other sportsman no matter their views. Speaking against the NRA to me is a waste of time, People kill People, guns are a tool like any other, except they provide the means to our countries freedom. The 2nd Amendment of the US Constitution is the law of the land, I remind everyone of my oath.

Grouse numbers have been falling in most places because of the limited logging practices and high predator numbers in most states, including ours here in Pa. I am also an RGS member, I use to be a RGS Sponsor, guide and spokesman, however I am just a regular member now, due to the internal politics of the RGS organization. Having been a member sense the early 60's I have watched RGS evolve into a complete Conservation Organization, rather than just using Conservation as a tool, to make sure that Grouse numbers were always high enough for us Sportsman to Hunt. The organization's original charter mandate has been hi-jacked and made into a Conservation Group. Many of the old time RGS Grouse hunting members have quit the RGS organization, including former executives, because of this evolution. I dropped out for a while myself, then rejoined as a regular year to year member.

The latest unproven WNV scare was used by the PGC to shrink Grouse season in Pa, ending the season just before Christmas. To their credit RGS did not support the season change, without actual scientific proof that the birds were being effected by WNV in the wild. IMO the PGC made a very bad move, limiting the Grouse season, especially for the small towns needing sportsman money to keep their businesses solvent.

Bill Palmer our long time Pa Professional Grouse Biologist recommended the Grouse season be extended into February, sighting the small numbers of actual Grouse hunters and that the PGC should due more of the logging that had been promised. Bill Palmer had completed a Grouse study in Potter County some years before, that proved Sport Grouse hunting had no effect on Grouse populations. In fact the open for hunting section of the forest ended up with a larger Grouse population than the closed to hunting section, that butted right up against it. Bill may have the only copy of this scientific test study still available, mine was destroyed in a home flood, the RGS's has disappeared from the HQ building some how. There maybe a copy of this RGS/PGC Grouse study buried away at the PGC, but God only knows were, doubt it will ever surface for public consumption. I learned thru experience that Grouse management is a very political entity, and the tests better show what the politicians want to see, especially here in Pa where they wanted Grouse season to be more like the New England Grouse season, ending around Christmas time. Politics has more of an effect on Grouse management and Grouse numbers, than most people realize.

Ryman Gun Dog
L.C. Smith Man