doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com OT, but of interest.

Chris,
There exist numerous studies on Ruffed Grouse ecology, but, I doubt any one of them can take into account all methods of predation, including "road hunting". One particular study focused on a small stand of very tall Norway Pine, and the excellent grouse habitat surrounding it, concluding that the stand of pines gave avian predators enough of a leg up that there were no grouse for at least 6 miles surrounding the stand.
It is hard to get around the 90% number of grouse killed in a 12 month period, regardless of method.
"Road Hunting" as you have described, is illegal in MN, and the DNR has a number of mechanical birds that are put to good use every season, to discourage it. The success rate of the DNR stings in these operations dwarf my success at actual grouse hunting, but, otherwise intelligent people get taken in, every year. I don't think that restriction applies to Native lands in the northern part of the state, as I have seen mini vans driving slowly on those lands in northern MN, with the side doors open, and guns bristling from the opening. Non native people are not permitted to hunt those lands, so, I have no knowledge/comment as to how that effects the bird population in those areas. But, they did it last year, and, I am sure, will do it again, this year.
In good conditions, grouse are capable of producing large clutches of eggs in a nesting season. Thank goodness for that.

Dr. Sane, if you truly feel that way about the pursuit of game birds during the season, why would you comment on matters of ecology of same, especially when your thinking on the subject is so clearly misinformed? Is it asking too much that your opinion be based on some of the few known facts pertaining to it, instead of some odd home brewed, and flat out wrong notions of same?

Best,
Ted

Talk about "Inane" to me the height of Inaneness is spending piles of money on a gun & firing Thousands of rounds of ammunition at something which is utterly unedible on the plate, But that's just me. No I am not a sustenance hunter, but I do for the most part Eat what I Shoot.

Had there not have been Hunters then there no doubt would be "NO" shooting sports at all, except for perhaps the para-military ones. Thus for my part you can Stuff your self righteous attitude.

I have been known to shoot at inedible clay pigeons (as practice with my hunting shotguns for a coming bird season, typically, but, sometimes just for the hell of it) and would understand people who chose to only shoot at clay pigeons. Hey, no problem, that is your perogative, whatever. John Mann told me toward the end of his life, if it wasn't for clay pigeons, he wouldn't have a reason to own a gun. Cool.
What I don't understand, is how someone who is clearly a non, if not, anti-hunter, coming out with a completely baseless and unscientific notion (grouse numbers will improve if people quit hunting them) and tossing that in the face of hunters on a double gun board.
I understand coming to your own opinions as you get older. But, opinions should have some basis in fact.
The notion that hunters are hunting ruffed grouse into extinction, is not based in reality, and has been disproven, far more than once.


Best,
Ted

Ted,

MN made it illegal to take them on the ground? GOOD! Where I use to live the the highest numbers of grouse killed were during the several week long Moose seasons in October. Marauding fools on dirt roads looking for moose would pop every grouse they saw. I have less respect for people that do that then... well... you know.

Sportsmen take them on the wing.

Its just that the road hunters kill ALOT of them in October, and I have wondered if the grouse hunting would improve if the state banned ground slicing. I have no evidence one way or the other.

As far as testing the theory though, the Dr. does have a point. Unless its already been done or they studied populations that have little to no hunting pressure you can't truly tell what the impact is unless you test it, but I would be one of the first to say F-NO to closing the season cause I can't think of anything more fun to do in the fall.

The venerable clay pigeon may be inedible but we did see a bit of a nibble at eating crow.
O.M

I believe the state uses the mechanical grouse to catch people who shoot grouse from a vehicle. Over the years people have seen the devices, driven up the road to park, and walked back to attempt to hunt the birds.
Those people are just asked to move on. They really haven't done anything wrong.
And, yes, populations of grouse that are off limits to hunting have been studied. Consistantly, bird mortality hovers around 90%. Same as hunted bird populations.


Best,
Ted

Actually I have shot a few clay pigeons myself. I have absolutely no objection to anyone shooting them in whatever quantity they desire. This was the statement I was responding to.

" People pay bags of $ to kill pen raised pheasant. I find that nothing less than inane! but I cannot work up any objection. Rationalizing hunting in the 21stCentury beyond some game management issues is ridiculous."

I hunt because I enjoy it & I enjoy eating game birds & animals. Period. It is "NOT" in my opinion any more INANE, than blasting a bunch of clay pigeons out of the air.

To each their own, do note I had no intention of demeaning anyone who enjoys the "Shooting Sports" was only commenting on Wonko's Statement which to me he was trying to make himself "Superior" to us mere mortals who would stoop to actually shooting something with life in it.

To that I can only respond as he is still living he is obviously a hypocrite, all things we eat have life in them, whether they are free roaming or attached to the ground matters Not. Even a Pure Vegetarian is no more Noble than a Carnivore.

Ted, I have no idea WTF you are trying to say. "Misinformed"? Certainly an interesting contention. Perhaps you should read my post again.

I openly admit to being a carnivore. I kill pigeons for fun and pay for the opportunity. But to pay for potential food and then shoot it full of holes is not even up to inane. I was being generous.
Like I said - if you feel compelled to kill something just do it and pass on the rest of the shtick. Nobody cares. If game populations are declining then collecting data on all potential causes and the impact of each would be a reasonable approach to determination. Some of you folks should take a hard look at what you presume before you substantiate it with nothing more than opinion and hearsay.

have another day

Wonko, I think Mr. Gullion and others that have DEDICATED their careers to that end might not see it as simplistically as hearsay or opinion. It takes a certain amount of grace in a person to accept that they are wrong, and ignorant. If you don't, as you state GAF then don't, please!

The liberal spin....