doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Ideal gun

My imaginary ideal gun is one for which I have been searching a long time. It exists, but I just haven't found it yet. It is a 12 ga. external hammer gun with 32" barrels, nitro proved for 1 1/4 oz. loads. It has 2 3/4" chambers, tight chokes in both barrels, a pistol grip, 14 3/4" to 15" LOP, and 2 1/2" to 2 5/8" DAH. It has great bores, and it weighs at least 8 1/4 lbs. It can have damascus or fluid steel barrels, as long as the proof is right on them. It is most likely English in origin, but not necessarily.

I'm not hard to please................I just know what I want.

SRH

Yes, the weights are stated a bit strangely. We'll see what it really weighs when it arrives, hopefully before the opening day fo dove season, Sept. 1.

SRH

CB and OC I think my choice of single barrel probably also reflects the fact that I am happy with my side buy sides and over and unders. I remember Gough Thomas writing in the British shooting times magazine around the mid 1970s extolling the virtues of mid to best grade single barrel 12s. I think his main points were that you could build a strong well balanced gun that was easily carried and with wild game birds then being in limited supply harvest a reasonable amount of game in a more sporting manner. When I carried my single barrel AYA cosmos roughshooting I also seemed more fascinated with the ammunition I carried for it and would pocket a mixture of 7s for snipe 6s or 5s for pheasant, some old eley maximums for mallard and in a separate pocket some eley Hymax in BBs or 3s for geese ,you can imagine how that turned out,but it was all part of the fun and reflected that I bought my cartridges by the box of 25.
I did have a 16 bore 1957 as new A5 with spare barrel in an Airways case that I bought for �600 about ten years ago which I foolishly traded for less than its worth and the best balanced and sweetest handling gun I have shouldered was a Webley and Scott 16 bore newish at the time but from poor memory not a 700 perhaps a Kinmount ,a 700 by another name, but I don�t know if they were even made in 16 bore. The Kinmount was a local Estate house near Dumfries which once hosted the Game Fair ,the County Landowners Assosciation one which only came up to Scotland every few years, It was at Kinmount in the mid ish 1970s and I was to go with my father. A family argument and teenage moodiness saw me forgo the experience but at least my father told me all about it when he came back. He had travelled by coach with some like minded souls and had a whale of a time. Owning a Kinmount Webley night aid the healing.

Stan I will keep an eye out for your 32 inch hammer gun Lagopus on here would probably be a good contact for sourcing such a gun. The UK guntrader site has a good turnover of British guns and might be worth a look also.
Regarding the printed gun weights perhaps they have worked out the exact best balanced weight for each bore not likely can but hope best of luck with it anyway.

I have not yet found my ideal gun but I know what I would like.
I came close with my Hatsan u/o. Just need to go SxS and double triggers with a 1/2" more chamber.

So,12 gauge, SxS, double triggers, side lock, 3 1/2 chambers, ejector, stainless steel, synthetic stock, choked imp mod on both 30" barrels. Proofed for steel & for 3/4 of a ton of TNT. So that I can feed it any factory shell with a 12 written on it & digest any tyrannosaurus load I want to concoct for it.
Give it a good heft to calm the recoil but not too much that it needs a wheel under it.

Please keep in mind that I have lots of other lesser guns to shoot more sensible loads in.
I would just like one that can be taken to the limit.
O.M

Here's the explanation for the way they state the weights, as sent to me by Berrien Moore, longtime poster here. I often overlook the obvious, and need to remind myself of the great line "It ain't got no gas in it"........Karl Childers, Slingblade.

" A quick conversion of kilos to pounds is by multiplying kilos by 2.20362. So, multiply the value of 2.9 kg by 2.20462 you get 6.393398 lb. Likewise for 2.7kg.

SRH

Thanks, Konor. There was lots of discussion about it on a WTB thread I posted some months ago. Conclusion by Toby Barclay was that guns like I want do exist, but are very rarely seen for sale, and that my chances of finding one are super slim unless I get very lucky. Several have sent me links to guns that were almost right, but had one issue or another that knocked them out of the running. Most often it is lack of choke. My best bet is on your side of the "pond", I think, but I have had English gunshops that wouldn't even reply to my emails about certain guns they listed. This one in particular. http://www.hammerguns.co.uk/stock.php?page=4

Anyway, the quest has morphed into a "standing watch".

SRH

Ribless Dickson 20, non ejector with a press stud opening in front of the trigger guard. That would cover my aesthetic and technical requirements just fine. And save me from the abomination of ribs.

This in steel, not plastic, would also cover me:

http://oplognosia.com/?p=7590

So occasionally, the ideal gun falls in your lap.

In recent years my hunting passion has been pursuing wild quail over pointers in Texas and the Carolinas. My collecting and shooting interests lean towards English side-by-sides which are predominately 12 gauge. Unfortunately, one is considered a rube if he shows up with a 12 gauge on most quail plantations or ranches. Even conspicuously pulling out dainty 2 � 12 gauge 7/8 oz paper shells by RST does not let one off this hook!

Most English small bores (and American for that matter) are short barreled and whippy, and likely to be short stocked as well.

So I have been forgoing my English preference and shooting predominantly a 29� Grulla 28 bore SxS. Not a chore I can assure you, but not in keeping with my preference to carry an antique gun.

Then last year, Toby Barclay posted a simple yet unique 20 bore BLNE by Julius Coster. The only other mention of Coster I have ever seen was by Konor above. It hit all my buttons: thick Damascus barrels but only 5 3/4 lbs total weight. I struggle to shoot light guns under 6 lbs but not this one: with 30� barrels, the CG is 4 3/4 � forward of the front trigger so it nearly swings itself! Perfect chokes for wild birds: skeet and IM. And to top it off, the replacement stock fits me to a tee (LOP 15 1/8�)

The moral of the story is keep a little balance in your gun buying account, know what you are seeking and don�t hesitate when you see it!

http://www.heritageguns.co.uk/Coster%2020%20BLNE/Coster%2020%20BLNE%20Details.htm

I just happen to have Old Colonels ideal gun in my gun cabinet. Made by W.J. Jeffrey with fine engraving and about 90% original colour hardening.

Did have a 32" hammer 12 bore made by Midland Gun Co. but marketed by Youngs of Misterton in Somerset but sold it some time back.

There seems to be plenty of choice around at the moment especially English box locks and at very reasonable prices too. Lagopus..... Oh. And my ideal gun; a Boss O/U 12 bore but my lottery ticket will have to come up good first!