Miller, the load he uses in his 28 gauge with open choke varies from .5 oz. to 9/16 oz.  The 9/16 oz is moving 1400+ fps.  The .5 oz, faster because of more powder and less shot. As for hamburger grind, the shot count for the small shot in the 28 ga. is about what tight shooting steel #3's are in a 12 ga. 1 5/8 oz. waterfowl load.  Inside 30 yards, I've had #9 TSS (a few stray pellets)fully penetrate one side through the other the front third of a gobbler's breast. And the muzzle velocity was a paltry 1100 fps.  Based on my experience shooting high density TSS for the past 8 seasons, I don't find Hal's claim of a full pass through on a woodie with either 9.5 or 10 beyond belief.  Curiously, coosa's report of #8 being too tight even with open chokes is not unusual.  The larger the TSS shot, the tighter the core's pattern.  Gil