doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Birmingham proof house date marks

There are several online sources for listing proof mark dates out of Birmingham. I noticed they stop at 1942-43 and start up at 1950. Where were guns proofed during 1944-1949? I understand it was during war time efforts, but guns were still being made, sold and put into service. Any insight would be great!

The two sources I have for those Birmingham proofmarks say that there's a gap from 1942-49. Here's the quote from the 2003 article in the Doublegun Journal, which doesn't give a reason for the gap:

"The marks ceased to be used from 1941, but were re-introduced for the calendar year 1950 . . . "

Thanks Larry, I have a BSA gun made for the RAF, they only made the gun from 1940 to 1945 and it has 1950's proof marks, so it kind of peeked my curiosity!

It wasn't required of the Proof House under any law AFAIK,,or was it?
London didn't mark any yr of proof date or code of date/proofing till the early 70's I don't think.
They both work under the same proof laws of the land so I would think it was not compulsory in the 40's to do so.

Maybe they just didn't feel the need to reinstate the extra marking right after the War. Then someone had a different idea in 1950 and it started all over again.
Or perhaps a new suit at the helm of the Birmingham House in 1950 and decided he rather liked the old look.

None of it really has to make any sense.

Just my couple of pence..

The BSA guns used for the RAF were bought back by BSA after the war and refurbished and sold on again. The 1950 marks will be because it might have had to go for re-proof prior to sale. The RAF guns were ascribed a letter 'W' in front of the serial number. You have there a piece of history. Lagopus.....

Neither the Birmingham date code mark nor the later London date mark was a required proofmark. But both come in handy to pin an exact date on a gun--especially if there are no makers' records to rely on.

Lap, thanks, yes when I saw what it was I just had to have it. The action is different than the ones in the catalogs. Its well used and will continue to be used. There are no re proof marks, bo you think these guns went to the RAF without proof marks and then returned to be proofed and sold?

They are interesting guns and I am still looking for an example for myself. A friend has one and didn't realise what it was until I examined it for him. I believe Webley & Scott produced a few too. It would have to have been Proof tested before passing to the RAF to comply with the proof regulations.

I will quote from the book 'The Golden Century' by John Knibbs; 'Work on the double barrel shotgun was shelved at the time as all the drawings and tooling had been destroyed in 1940 during the blitz. During the war, what component parts of the shotguns that could be salvaged were assembled in both ejector and non-ejector models and were supplied to the War Office for issue to the RAF for use by airgunners in Bomber Command to learn clay pigeon shooting. It was thought that this skill would help them in aerial combat when using machine guns. Well after the war in 1960, BSA Guns Ltd. actually purchased back most of the surviving shotguns from the RAF stores together with ammunition. These guns, known as the Regent model, were refurbished in Birmingham and resold during 1961. As well as assembling shotguns using parts from their own production, BSA also refurbished and finished part made or incomplete shotguns of other makes and types requisitioned by the war office for use by the RAF. No records exist for these Regent Model shotguns but they can all be identified by the prefix letter W in their serial number'.

I think some must have gone to Fighter Command also as I recall reading in 'Johnny' Johnson's book Wing Leader that he used one. If only guns could talk! Lagopus.....

Lagopus, could I hook onto this line and ask someone to read these proof marks from an EM Reilly 12 bore, SN 35186 (which per my chart is 1898-1903 - probably around 1900). It looks like there are London proof marks 1896-1904; and a re-proof in Birmingham after 1954? Can the barrel be dated? Thanks for the help. (I posted it on the Reilly line but nobody except a Reilly owner will read all that stuff).

Argo, that's an interesting batch of proofmarks. 3 tons, so definitely post-54. I get 1972 from the Birmingham date code mark. (XB).