doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com What are the best early 19th century American SXSs

Economics! The British (from 1800 to 1920/30) had more energy, money and customers (an entire empire) for high quality guns. They had a long standing tradition of quality firearms. High quality American designs were few, expensive, and found a limited market. Many American arms were good, functional guns, but never came close to the level of British guns. With a few exceptions, neither did the guns of other countries.

I personally don�t think that us Americans we�re sitting idly by while the Brits made the best, outdated firearms in the world. I doubt a Frenchman or a German would agree with Brits making the finest weapons available either. The Brits surely didn�t think they had the finest weapons during the Boer War.
Nobody could touch American design in repeating arms, pistol making, accuracy, etc during the late 19th and early 20th century. American design, sporting arms and military, had no equal. Only until Peter Paul Mauser came along with his brilliant design was there a real challenge to American repeater design.
The Brits flourished and were exceptional at producing an outdated sporting arm, the side by side shotgun and double rifle for many years, and they did an outstanding job of it.

These gentlemen did OK with their farm implement Parkers (most of them) and Smiths (Crosby & Fanning); and two (oh the shame) Winchester Repeating Shotguns in 1901
https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=185YOyQl7GIB9OYLs9Hr3tnMLHqs4rjEdR4j_E9l4HLw


1908 London Olympic Games Walter Ewing (Individual Gold) and George Beattie (Individual Silver), with Lefevers

The original poster was addressing SxS quality. My remarks were addressed to that question. Also, I recognize that there were some other makers in other countries (the few exceptions) like Johann Springer who made absolute best SxS guns. The British, as you point out, failed to develop much at all in the way of repeating arms... their market did not accept them readily.

Americans were definitely better/best at repeating arms for sporting applications. The Brits were very good at rifles as well, but their rifle markets (Africa, India, Scotland) requirements were very different from what the American manufacturers were serving. As a result the Brits kept producing those 'outdated' rifles that served so perfectly the needs of sporting clients in places like India and Africa. Horses for courses.

Well Chuck, be a little more specific next time. �Gun� doesn�t automatically mean sporting arms, specifically shotguns now does it? And if you were so concerned about the OP�s original topic , why�d you feel the need to include Dalys that were obviously being made in Prussia in an American SxS thread?

It�s all good.

"I was wondering what the best designed and best finished of the early American SXSs. Before the Winchester model 21."

Here was the original post. It definitely specified ""American SxS's".
That leaves out O/U's as well as all pumps, semi-autos etc as well as repeating arms be they shotgun or rifle.

I acquired my first Lefever nearly 50 years ago. I still like its design better than most any double I am aware of & this includes many, if not most foreign doubles as well. The gun can be taken apart & put back together with no hang-ups regardless of whether the hammers are cocked or down in the fired position. The firing pins never hang in the dented primer causing difficult opening. You need no special tools to re-install the hammers & mainsprings, nothing to push around like an L C Smith, & certainly to struggle like a Fox, one of the hardest guns I ever tried to put the hammers back in. Incidentally those side plates on a LAC gun are not just "Dummy" plates as on most side plated box locks. They allow access to the locks. The hammers, mainsprings cocking hook & some other parts can all be removed after taking off the plates without removing the stock. The top hung sears offer much better leverage against "Jar Off" than a typical boxlock. Design wise give me a good LAC gun anyday over the Famed A&D boxlock. All these little things add up.

As far as American guns go I am still of the opinion that Parker Bros generally had the best "Finish, especially inside. As said they needed it to work at all, though they did through this better finish end up with a smooth working gun. For equivalent barrels, stock & decoration though they were also the highest priced.