doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Proof shot weights ?

Drew,
Wasn�t EC powder in use during the 1890�s? 42 to 50 grains of EC (3 1/4 dram) wouldnt exactly qualify as low pressure would it?

Thank you Drew.
That clarifies a bit of stuff. Especially that I had picked up from somewhere an erroneous belief that those old 3"loads were somehow of a lower pressure than they really are.
4 tons, That is a lot. This Gun is also very stout with chamber walls measuring .200" .

I use this gun mainly for DTL trap with 2 3/4" 28 gr. 1250-1300 fps. 7 1/2 shot, Spartan or Saga trap loads.
Some times for hunting foxes I use Eley Alphamax +,12 g, 36 gr, AAA. 1298 fps. Is that too heavy or high pressure ?

I have two other modern 3"magnum guns so I don't need to shoot heavy loads in that pigeon gun, it's that I just like to.
O.M

The Explosives Company of Stowmarket, England introduced �E.C.� (made from cotton) in 1882.

The American �E.C.� & �Schultze� Powder Company was established in Oakland, New Jersey in 1890.
�E.C.� No. 1, �New Schultze�, and �New E.C. No. 2� were advertised by the company in 1902, which was purchased by DuPont in 1903.

c. 1893 William Read & Sons, Boston advertisement
Regulated for 45 to 48 grains (3 1/4 - 3 1/2 Dr. Eq.) �Schultze� or similar Nitro powders, and 1 1/4 oz. Shot.



The Overland Monthly, Oct. 1895 �Smokeless Powder For Shotguns�
http://books.google.com/books?id=Wv0MAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA446&lpg
on p. 453
3 1/4 Dram Eq./40 grains DuPont Bulk Smokeless 1 1/8 oz. (1255 fps) = 7440 psi
3 1/4 Dram Eq./44 grains �E.C.� Bulk Smokeless 1 1/8 oz. = 7584 psi
+ 10-14% for modern piezo transducer numbers

The heaviest pre-WWI Smokeless loads would have been 1 1/4 oz. 3 3/4 Dr. Eq. with �Schultze� Bulk Smokeless at about 14,000 psi; "E.C." about 14,750 psi ; and with Ballistite Dense Smokeless about 15,250 psi.
At the 1901 GAH at Live Birds Harold Money was using a Parker with 1 1/4 oz. shot and 52 1/2 gr. �E.C.� = 3 3/4 Dr. Eq. = 1330 fps
http://library.la84.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1901/VOL_37_NO_03/SL3703012.pdf
In an 8# gun that would be 29 ft/lbs of free recoil

Boomers indeed.

The mere fact that some very heavy loads existed prior to and following WWII should in no way convey the idea that a steady diet of them is appropriate in your vintage double. And the proof load is a proof load for testing the safety and integrity of the barrels. It is not a recommended daily diet or a guarantee that the action will withstand that level of continual pounding. Sherman Bell's tests on Damascus barrels demonstrated that even some extremely heavy charges may not blow up a gun. But there are more ways to destroy a gun than rupturing the barrels.

Despite what manufacturers and advertising hype said, fact is there are hundreds of thousands of guns that have been worn out and damaged due to heavy use and abuse, and a lot of it was from shooters who felt they needed the heaviest and highest velocity loads to be successful. An Indy car can go over 200 mph. But you won't ever see one with 200,000 miles on the engine. Some don't finish one 500 mile race.

delete

Trying again on this one:

Drew, in Vic Venters' "Gun Craft" (p. 207), he reproduces a service pressure chart provided by the Birmingham Proof House. That chart shows that a 3" 12ga, 1 1/2 oz proof under the 1925 rules is a 3 1/2 ton gun under the 1954 rules. Service pressure converted to radial transducer: 10,427 psi. (Quite close to Burrard's 10,640 psi service pressure for a 3 1/2 ton gun.) The 4 ton guns are 3" magnums, which didn't exist under the 1925 proof rules. They're the ones with a service pressure of 11,913 psi--which means they'd be OK with any Brit or US 2 3/4" or 3" load.

Moses, you'd want to stick with loads under the mid-10,000 psi range. If you want to stick with factory loads, I'd suggest something like RST's 2 3/4" pheasant load (1 1/4 oz in 4-5-6) if you're looking for something on the heavier side. The RST chart does not list pressure, but they'll provide that information if you call them, and I'm pretty sure it will be under 10,000 psi.

The other option is to work up your own 1 1/4 oz reloads. Using Win AA's or Rem STS/Gun Club or Fed Gold Medal, there are several options using Unique powder with velocities in the low 1200 range, pressure mid-9,000 range. The British say that the Alphamax (and any other British 2 3/4" shell) is OK in a 1 1/2 ton gun. However, with near 1300 fps velocity, you'll get a fair amount of recoil. Either the RST or the reloads will reduce that, which in turn makes those loads a bit easier on old wood.